You never want P4 unless you facing all soviets no matter what, so that's t3 gone, and if you don't have call ins you NEED to get to t4 so you have something to compete against the allied medium spam that's incoming.
So are you honestly saying Ostheers over priced teching is good design because people skip it? Because I can't pin down what you are trying to say here.
If Ostheer only builds t1 and t2, they only already spent a little bit less than it takes for Soviets to go t1 or t2 to t3 or t4 (not fuel wise, MP wise).
Both Soviets and Ostheers teching are broken, but at least soviets don't have to put with insane teching costs just to get to their only viable late game units.
The PIV isn't viable because of the Jackson and the fact it's in a tier were every other unit in it is useless. It has zero to do with the T34/76, which is fine unit that's only weakness is that it falls off in viability late game.
This is about Soviet vs Ostheer so P4 is perfectly viable. You dont NEED to go T4 against Soviets as you have PGs, Tigers and Paks. Again, we had COH2 since 2013 and we know exactly what works with this match up.
Quote me on that if I did say it. Yes, Ostheer has to either pick T3 or T4 because selecting both is a suicide. And welcome to problem of playing Soviets "good tech design" where they have to skip certain Tiers.
No they don't but they have to select a "specific" commander to call in a tank to fight against "Non-doctrinal" Panthers and P4s. |
Remake COH1 or do nothing. COH2 strategic depth is too shallow and too nubs friendly, it's beyond salvation.
This ^^ |
It's a statement I apologized for, but you keep bringing it up as a "gotcha" when literally all I did was accidentally read the stats for the ToW KV1, which is right next to the MP KV1 on the coh2 stats website.
Soviets don't have a high MP drain in teching comparable to Ostheer unless you literally build your tiers linearly, as in make every single building in order from t1 to t2.
No skilled Ostheer player builds all 4 tech buildings. In 1 v 1 or even in large games, a skilled player would either want a P4 + Doctrine support or Panther + Doctrine support. If 4 v 4 go on past 40 minutes mark and Ostheer/Sov sitting on fuel than both players would build T3/T4 in addition. |
Which ones do better for cost? They are all expensive as garden. The Tiger is so popular because you don't need to bust your balls teching in order to get it.
Ostheers tanks are moderately better because your not going to have a lot of them, nor a lot of infantry supporting them. And I just said Skirts should be an upgrade, not a vet ability.
I have never one used the word slippery slope. And Ostheer has a MP drain due to teching costs/high cost infantry. I'm not even defending or discussing any single unit, we are discussing faction design.
Although I find it very cute that you follow me around asserting Iv said things I never have.
Soviets have high MP drain as well assuming they build T2, not to mention their tech cost MP as well. I don't see how that was a problem before WFA but it's a problem now.
"Alexzandvar
The idea that you cannot cost effectively deal with Tigers as allies is a joke, not only does the IS2 out class it, so does the KV1."
Some of the things you have said.
http://www.coh2.org/topic/30786/pgrens-with-double-panzerschrecks-against-usf/page/6
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I do support my grens with a HT, MG-42, and multiple other things but that isn't going to stop a 1919 horde of rifles or a BAR's player who knows how to use smoke. Don't assume the person your arguing with is an idiot, and you won't get embarrassed like this.
And raising the reinforcement cost will again, do nothing because the MP float is a matter of lacking options to spend it on new units, not a case of to cheap reinforcement.
Luftwaffe is pretty subpar in every way compared to the other doctrines you can take, it's expensive munitions wise, and Fallsch are very much glass cannons. On urban maps with lots of cover they are okay, but require a shitload more micro for what they can actually get done.
Fortifications is the second or third best OKW doctrine atm.
And yes I have faced off against gren spammers, but not for long because something something mortars something something smoke something something tanks.
I am pretty sure you embarrassed yourself countless time in this Form "KV1 better than Tiger" lol. By the time USF player unlocks 1919 with the commander AND equip his "Horde", I think a fast P4 will have something to say about this.
Man power drain can come from high reinforcement cost as well. Do you not build 2+ Obers when you always play OKW? |
I think I would agree OKW has a difficult time clearing out buildings early game. This is exactly why most players chose commanders with infiltration grenades. The grenades themselves are fine, just need a cost increase as they demolish buildings rather quickly. |
Ostheer isn't trash, it's just not as good. And Soviets have had several units buffed/changed since WFA came out. The IS2 used to be garbage nobody used and now it's very common.
And the 120mm mortar is the longest ranged and most durable mortar in the game, for 400 mp it's well worth the investment. But you don't need 120mm in order to wipe squads like nobodies business.
Ultimately Ostheers biggest issue is 1. Not being able to stand up to Soviet Call in's and 2. Not being able to keep up with Soviets tech wise, due to the MP drain.
Your slippery slope arguments in every post are just uncomprehending. You don't need to go out of your way to defend every single Axis unit. We all play Axis and we know the strengths and weaknesses.
Ostheer has been dealing with Call in since 2013, it's not difficult. MP drain, what are you talking about? Stop creating a situation where Axis player is completely on the back foot, it's a L2P issue. Thanks. |
Ostheer can't spam anything, and the solution is to fix the MP float not to raise the price on the crappiest MG in the game which is a grand total of 2 OKW doctrines, only 1 of which is any good.
I play Ostheer just as much as I play OKW, and LMG grens are good, but they still blow ass against Rifle hordes no matter how long the game progresses.
And Volks costing 240 is going to fix literally nothing, yeah 5 extra MP big whoop.
This will definitely solve the main power drain problem a little, which is the topic of the thread. Also, increasing reinforcement cost as they vet 3+.
You are putting 1 Gren squad against horde of Rifles is a L2P issue, learn to retreat and support your grens with MG-42. |
There was a absolute insane increase in DPS when WFA came out, the reason 4 man squads worked before WFA was because the game was created around the idea of all soviet squads having 2 extra men.
And yeah I'm really sorry your 6 men squad occasionally get wiped by a mortar, or 2 of the most expensive Axis tanks in the game, or rifle nades (which you get a massive warning about).
The whole idea of Axis being limited to 4 man teams died when WFA came out, both vanilla factions should have been reworked. Soviets given a better teching system and stock units, Ostheer given a cheaper teching system and 5 man squads.
What DPS are you talking about? The conversation was about Ostheer vs SU. Yea I am really sorry too for your 4 man squad gets wiped by 400MP 120mm (expensive), same goes for my expensive IS2.
Point still stands: Ostheer is not trash vs SU. |
MG-34 > MG-42
Infact the MG-34 is quite overpowered due to the fact that OKW can spam so much of them with little to no side effect. Ostheer MG-42 is alot worse due to hard teching costs.
MG-42 is the best all the way man, just the sound of the gun alone makes me bias against all MGs. |