I think a good way to test if the 120mm needs a buff is to make it available to all soviet players. See if they choose 120mm over default. For the first week of the hotfix, perhaps they will but in time I think they will find it to be worse than the 38mm mortar.
Removing the doctrine requirement seems like a good way to test it in play. To see if its worth the doctrine slot.
I tried using this mortar in a test match and it just feels so clunky. With the exception of OKW trucks, there is no one anyone is going to sit still long enough to be hit by the mortar. The damage feels very 'meh' even when you do hit. I think the design philosophy of this mortar was slow but powerful. Changes over time have made this mortar slow and weak.
Every faction starts with an engineering unit except UKF so you start with one to repair. Unless it dies, you are not paying for a support unit.
Nobody captures with crew because that's a good way to lose your tank. Especially with how buggy crew interactions are with damaged tanks and recrewing. Someone please tell me a way to recrew my damaged tank immediately without switching to repair mode first.
The crew is vulnerable while repairing so many players will likely retreat further back than if engineers were out. In addition, USF is locked out of true heavy vehicles because of their un-crewing perk. They at most will have one crew repairing the tank which takes longer than normal unless you uncrew two vehicles together and micro them to repair together. With engineers, you can have 2 engineers repairing one tank.
Sherman is only 10MP and 10F cheaper than Panzer 4. Panzer 4 has better armour and all purpose ammunition that works well on both tanks and infantry for only 10MP, 10F more, the increased cost is represented in the stats. Different supporting armies behind the tank too. The Sherman radio net works well with other Shermans while Panzer 4 synergizes with Panzer grens. Very hard to compare the two.
You need to stop cherry picking facts. Stein Grenadier made an excellent argument on why Pios do not need a buff. A minor vet decrease perhaps but the same should be made for Royal Engineers as they are both close range support units.
Brumbar has got exactly what I'm looking for in regards to a howitzer on wheels.
Good mobility, decent armour, decent healthpool, decent cost, fast projectile that wipes reliably and good vet upgrades.
I think I expected too much from the KV-2. I can see how its a meme 1v1 unit with how much health it has but its too slow and the gun on the KV-2 isn't the derp gun I expected from my times playing World of Tanks.
Also to the person saying it can duel a Panther with some help. It most definitely cannot duel a panther even with ALOT of help. Its best quality is taking damage and if I'm going to get something that is gonna take damage, I'd rather get an IS-2.
I only wish it was a little faster and had faster projectile speed. Would be nice if it was as fast as ISU HE rounds.
Exactly. But You get it wrong I'm afraid (and with all due respect).
Current vehicle prices for USF seem fair.
The crew is attached to the vehicles. Its not like you get to use both the crew and the tank. Adding the price of the crew with the tank makes no sense if you can't use both at the same time. Similar to the Gren Half Track call in from Ost.
USF have to invest into supporting engineers if they decide to go Pershing which is their 'heavy' but is not really a heavy since the armour isn't much better than a Panther.
I mean yeah obviously it’s faster if you skip T1. T0 call in inf saves you 10 fuel and cap faster, so you get Pgrens a minute or a min and a half earlier. Not to mention possible mp bleed early with Grens which may delay your Pgrens until a bit later, which isn’t an Osttruppen issue,
Pgrens arrive early but why would you get them so early? You would get out gunned and have crazy bad MP bleed from them. Focus fire down the Pgrens and you're gonna get value trades.
I know its not as simple as that but just some food for thought.
Call me crazy but the KV-2 feels worse than Brumbar. Armour levels feels about the same but the Brumbar fires faster, moves faster and wipes more reliably because the projectile moves faster.
Vipper, allow me to put this numbers in forums terms.
RE have the DOUBLE of acc at FAR distance compared to PIOS.
About the SAME at MID distance.
Rougly 12% lower at NEAR distance.
Volley fire is still an option, stopping any intent of Pios to close the game.
And both units are engineer units and trash tier combat units.
But after all, the vet of RE are still far lower than CE and PIOS.
What about that?
You forget that Pios shred at close range compared to RE.
I think comparing RE's to Pios is kinda unfair.
RE's role is to provide smoke, build emplacements, sweep mines and the occasional volley fire. They rarely have to repair because USF can repair their own tanks unless its the Pershing. Because RE repair is mostly not needed and they revolve around their abilities (smoke/volley fire) they should be better fighters thank Pios to compensate. Otherwise they are just a glorified smoke launching unit that USF keep around.
Pios on the other hand are the only OST repair unit. They get the minesweeper repair upgrade because their main role is to repair and sweep mines. One thing that makes Pios unique to all other engineer squads is the great mines they have access to. I think if any buff were to happen then the munitions cost of their mines need to go up to compensate. Their quirk is that they are the best 'builder' unit in terms of mines and repairing.
I do agree that their vet needs to be lowered though to match other factions especially since they are a (mediocre) close range oriented squad.
You already have to choose between 5 men and lmg42 upgrade though? It just requires a doctrine
Stock 5 man grens cannot happen. I think they should maybe get an RA bonus with vet 2, so vet 3 isn't the only survivability buff they get
Could also split the damage modifier between vet 2 and 3 if adding RA is too much
I think grens are fine the way they are. They are a very cost effective DPS squad in exchange for less survivability. Adding too much RA bonus would make them even better general purpose infantry.
Take pre-nerf Fallschrimjaegers for example. They shred infantry and they had a snare to keep tanks anyway. Way too good for their cost. Grens already have a snare and putting grens above all other infantry would create the issue of how do you deal with them if they have no weakness?
I don't think cost adjustment would help this mortar.
It just feels so bad to use. Its slow and clunky and ineffective at its role, it definitely needs an adjustment to its stats to be more in-line as a 'premium' mortar.
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