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Future unit and upgrade ideas, just for fun.

6 Oct 2019, 02:15 AM
#1
avatar of GI John 412

Posts: 488 | Subs: 1

Hey guys, this thread is for discussing any new unit ideas you think could be added to the game (CoH 2) or future games (CoH 3 or CoH Online, if that happens).

The rules are simple, just make a suggestion or present an idea and state what it is, how it could be implemented and whether it should be for a future CoH game or added to CoH 2 in a future patch.

Example 1:

M2 Carbines: The full auto version of the M1 carbine was fielded in small numbers near the end of WWII. Many were actually just upgraded M1 Carbines done by swapping out a few internal parts, which makes it hard to identify in photographs as not all converted M1 to M2 Carbines have the larger magazines, and different sights and barrel band that was later standardized.

Implementation: Add as an upgrade to Rear Echelon troops as a doctrinal upgrade that makes them able to fire in short bursts and change the volley fire ability to a panic Fire ability. Panic fire has all of the men empty the magazine in a long full auto burst that has low accuracy but instantly suppresses the unit being targeted but then also triggers a reload of all the Carbines in the squad making it only good at stopping a charging enemy squad and not good at attacking an enemy position. No new models would be needed to add and the DPS of the M2 Carbines could be modeled after Sturm Pioneer StGs. It would have to be an expensive upgrade, probably around 90 munition and takes up all weapon slots.

Example 2:

M3 Lee/Grant Tank: This tank saw a lot of service with the British forces through lend lease in the North African campaign. For its time, it had strong armor, lots of firepower with its 75mm and 37mm cannons and was mechanically reliable. It’s downside was a very high profile that made it easy to spot and hard to hide and it’s powerful 75mm gun was mounted in the hull, kind of like a Stug.

Implementation: If CoH3 is set in Italy or North Africa it would be awesome to see M3 tanks as a doctrinal “heavy” or “assault” tank for the British. While it was only a medium tank, it had very good armor compared to other tanks in 1941-1942 and matched up well compared to the early Panzer IIIs and Panzer IVs in Africa at the time.

Example 3:

Luftwaffe Ground Troops: Luftwaffe support personnel like mechanics and supply troops who no longer had airplanes to support due to losses were often put into infantry units to support other ground forces.

Implementation: Add into a future doctrine or a doctrinal rework for Ostheer or OKW. Use the unit model of the Ostheer team weapon members from the PaK43 and Lefh howitzer. Armament would be Kar98ks and be a 5 or 6 man squad. It could be used to basically give OKW Ostruppen or to give Ostheer a unit kind of like Volksgrenadiers but can also repair, build sandbags, build Flak emplacements and lay barbed wire. Upgrades could be an LMG maybe an MG34 or MG42 or maybe two or three MP40s to provide a mixed weapon unit that can successfully defend a position, but is not very strong in the attack. OKW version could simply be identical to Ostruppen and added to the Luftwaffe doctrine, except have repair abilities. Ostheer version could be identical to Volksgrenadiers but no StG upgrade, no pamzerfaust but have a repair ability and be able to construct Flak emplacements. There’s a lot of ways this unit could work. Lol



Good luck, have fun and keep it clean and friendly. No need to talk about balance or this vs that op/up or broken. This is just for talking about ideas and having fun!
6 Oct 2019, 02:45 AM
#2
avatar of Heavy Sapper

Posts: 379

Churchill 95mm CS tank: basically an upgrade that give the churchill Stug E or Sherman HE profile.

Universal carrier support package: Upgrade give the UC a smoke discharger work like valentine's smoke pot, add some armour close to M20 lv and allow infantry to fire from inside of the vehicle.

Mobile engineering detachment: call in a M3 HT with a recovery royal engineer squad inside. The HT have the repairs aura like in US campaign.

Armor vehicles pyrotechnics supplies: upgraded allow the vehicle to fire a red flare shoot to direct base artillery.
6 Oct 2019, 03:18 AM
#3
avatar of PanzerFutz

Posts: 95


Luftwaffe Ground Troops: Luftwaffe support personnel like mechanics and supply troops who no longer had airplanes to support due to losses were often put into infantry units to support other ground forces.

Implementation: Add into a future doctrine or a doctrinal rework for Ostheer or OKW. Use the unit model of the Ostheer team weapon members from the PaK43 and Lefh howitzer. Armament would be Kar98ks and be a 5 or 6 man squad. It could be used to basically give OKW Ostruppen or to give Ostheer a unit kind of like Volksgrenadiers but can also repair, build sandbags, build Flak emplacements and lay barbed wire. Upgrades could be an LMG maybe an MG34 or MG42 or maybe two or three MP40s to provide a mixed weapon unit that can successfully defend a position, but is not very strong in the attack. OKW version could simply be identical to Ostruppen and added to the Luftwaffe doctrine, except have repair abilities. Ostheer version could be identical to Volksgrenadiers but no StG upgrade, no panzerfaust but have a repair ability and be able to construct Flak emplacements.


Of your 3 proposals, this is the one with the most merit. The other 2 aren't really needed but, the Ostheer Luftwaffe doctrines really do need to be reworked (possibly fused into one really good doctrine).

The new and improved version of an Ostheer Luftwaffe doctrine might look something like this:

0 CP Airdropped Medical Supplies (same as Luftwaffe Supply)*

1 CP Luftwaffe Ground Troops (pretty much what you've said above - essentially a Luftwaffe engineer unit)

3 CP Supply Drop Zone (same as Luftwaffe Supply and Close Air Support)

3 CP Fallschirmjaegers (basically the same as OKW version)

4 CP Luftwaffe Support Officer (much like the All-Units version, has all air support options available)

To my mind, this version would be much better than the 2 current Ostheer Luftwaffe doctrines, which are too munitions-intensive and provide no other units to supplement the core force. It also harks back to the CoH1 Luftwaffe doctrine, which was better than either of the current doctrines but contained units which are not available in CoH2.

I'd like to see this change happen during the next commander revamp (assuming there is another one).

[* If the Medical Supplies were incorporated as one of the Support Officer's abilities, the extra slot could be used to add the Pak43 (8 CP) to the roster (in place of the defunct Flak 88 from CoH1).]
6 Oct 2019, 07:25 AM
#4
avatar of Jilet

Posts: 344

Terminator Upgrade :

> 1 Muni
> Makes Obersoldaten 7 Man
> Grants cover bonus and commando camo
> Gives squad 7 LMG-34s
> Updates weapon drop rate to 0.0

:snfPeter:
6 Oct 2019, 07:33 AM
#5
avatar of Heavy Sapper

Posts: 379

jump backJump back to quoted post6 Oct 2019, 07:25 AMJilet
Terminator Upgrade :

> 1 Muni
> Makes Obersoldaten 7 Man
> Grants cover bonus and commando camo
> Gives squad 7 LMG-34s
> Updates weapon drop rate to 0.0

:snfPeter:


7 mg34 is too overkill, how about 3 sheck and 4 mg34, I mean, a terminator should terminate tank, too, right?
6 Oct 2019, 07:34 AM
#6
avatar of Jilet

Posts: 344



7 mg34 is too overkill, how about 3 sheck and 4 mg34, I mean, a terminator should terminate tank, too, right?


Yeah thats right. Totally forgot that. Thx m8.
6 Oct 2019, 07:37 AM
#7
avatar of Heavy Sapper

Posts: 379

jump backJump back to quoted post6 Oct 2019, 07:34 AMJilet


Yeah thats right. Totally forgot that. Thx m8.


You are welcomed, mate. Looking forward to use this units in the game :v
6 Oct 2019, 08:19 AM
#8
avatar of oootto92

Posts: 87

AP/HE button for stugs. This was germanys most produced AFV and it should be the main medium battle tank for ostheer instead of p4.

Thematically it follows the factional trend perfectly: It's cost effective, loses terribly at short range if you flank it but shines at long range.
6 Oct 2019, 08:58 AM
#9
avatar of achpawel

Posts: 663

AP/HE button for stugs. This was germanys most produced AFV and it should be the main medium battle tank for ostheer instead of p4.

Thematically it follows the factional trend perfectly: It's cost effective, loses terribly at short range if you flank it but shines at long range.


A very good idea - especially if added to some commander for a start.
6 Oct 2019, 09:28 AM
#10
avatar of Crecer13

Posts: 1494 | Subs: 3

The soldiers began to remodel their M1 carbines into automatic carbines in 1944 when they liberated the Belgian factories of the FN. After the inspection saw what the soldiers were doing with their weapons, an official M2 modernization kit was created that included automatic fire and an expanded magazine.

A similar story was with the AVT-40, automatic SVT was tested before the war and it was recognized: well this is stupid. But during the war, field workshops began to modernize their SVT in AVT and began sending reports to the factory: automatic fire is very useful in critical defense situations, send us more AVT. At first, the factory refused to produce AVT, referring to the test report of automatic fire, and then surrendered, and from 1943 until 1945, the SVT was produced only as an AVT.
6 Oct 2019, 10:03 AM
#11
avatar of A. Soldier
Social Media Manager Badge

Posts: 2717 | Subs: 2

King Tiger Ace and King Tiger Command Tank -

If any more new commanders are ever added I think this would be a good fit for them. The King Tiger Ace will be based on Kurt Knispel, part of the 503rd Heavy Tank Battalion that fought at both the Eastern and Western fronts and is the top scoring tank ace to date. I think it would be a nice twist on the Tiger Ace and a new addition to the OKW.

King Tiger Command Tank would be for the Ostheer as that would be a nice little way to add a KT to the Army in my opinion. Same as the Command Tiger, has a toggle for commander aura. Fun fact: You can already use something like it using Cheat Mods, it was used in the Ardennes Assault campaign or something.

Armored Riflemen -

Long ranged oriented mechanized riflemen squad equipped with an M1919A6 LMG and carried by an M3 Halftrack. The core opposite to the Cav Riflemen.

Would give another mechanized sort of commander a unique squad to play with.

Churchill Kangaroo -

You wanted something funny so here it is. Inspired by the Wikinger boys' work:



Heavily Armored personnel carrier of sorts, can carry like 2 squads and protect them from a large manner of enemy ordinance.

Advanced sWS package -

Allows OKW HQ halftracks to be able to carry and reinforce infantry. Something "funny".

I got some more but these are the ones off the top of my head for now.
6 Oct 2019, 12:19 PM
#12
avatar of GI John 412

Posts: 488 | Subs: 1

The soldiers began to remodel their M1 carbines into automatic carbines in 1944 when they liberated the Belgian factories of the FN. After the inspection saw what the soldiers were doing with their weapons, an official M2 modernization kit was created that included automatic fire and an expanded magazine.

A similar story was with the AVT-40, automatic SVT was tested before the war and it was recognized: well this is stupid. But during the war, field workshops began to modernize their SVT in AVT and began sending reports to the factory: automatic fire is very useful in critical defense situations, send us more AVT. At first, the factory refused to produce AVT, referring to the test report of automatic fire, and then surrendered, and from 1943 until 1945, the SVT was produced only as an AVT.


Interesting. Please provide a reference. All evidence I have shows that the M1 carbine was originally designed to be a full auto weapon but the requirement was dropped prior to production in order to speed up the development of the weapon. The idea was revisited later and a kit to convert M1 Carbines to full auto was developed. The appearance of the StG44 further reinforced the need for the full auto version and the night vision equipped M3 Carbines issued to Army troops in Okinawa were also full auto from the factory.

https://www.amazon.com/U-S-Infantry-Weapons-World-War/dp/0917218671

The only reference I have that ever references a full auto “soldier done” conversion is band of brothers where Richard Winters received a full auto M1 Garand that was full auto only converted for him by a fellow easy company member. (Not in the TV show, only in the book is this referenced).

6 Oct 2019, 12:55 PM
#13
avatar of Crecer13

Posts: 1494 | Subs: 3



Interesting. Please provide a reference. All evidence I have shows that the M1 carbine was originally designed to be a full auto weapon but the requirement was dropped prior to production in order to speed up the development of the weapon. The idea was revisited later and a kit to convert M1 Carbines to full auto was developed. The appearance of the StG44 further reinforced the need for the full auto version and the night vision equipped M3 Carbines issued to Army troops in Okinawa were also full auto from the factory.

https://www.amazon.com/U-S-Infantry-Weapons-World-War/dp/0917218671

The only reference I have that ever references a full auto “soldier done” conversion is band of brothers where Richard Winters received a full auto M1 Garand that was full auto only converted for him by a fellow easy company member. (Not in the TV show, only in the book is this referenced).



I could not find, but this information was in "Forgotten Weapons" video, in one of the videos was a story about the M1 Carabiner, how soldiers made automatic modifications at the FN factory.
6 Oct 2019, 13:14 PM
#14
avatar of Bobo

Posts: 5



Example 3:

Luftwaffe Ground Troops: Luftwaffe support personnel like mechanics and supply troops who no longer had airplanes to support due to losses were often put into infantry units to support other ground forces.

Implementation: Add into a future doctrine or a doctrinal rework for Ostheer or OKW. Use the unit model of the Ostheer team weapon members from the PaK43 and Lefh howitzer. Armament would be Kar98ks and be a 5 or 6 man squad. It could be used to basically give OKW Ostruppen or to give Ostheer a unit kind of like Volksgrenadiers but can also repair, build sandbags, build Flak emplacements and lay barbed wire. Upgrades could be an LMG maybe an MG34 or MG42 or maybe two or three MP40s to provide a mixed weapon unit that can successfully defend a position, but is not very strong in the attack. OKW version could simply be identical to Ostruppen and added to the Luftwaffe doctrine, except have repair abilities. Ostheer version could be identical to Volksgrenadiers but no StG upgrade, no pamzerfaust but have a repair ability and be able to construct Flak emplacements. There’s a lot of ways this unit could work. Lol


I very much agree with this idea. This could give OKW a cheap infantry squad, which can also repair. It will also reduce the pressure on sturmpioneers.
6 Oct 2019, 19:30 PM
#15
avatar of Mr. Someguy

Posts: 4490

A similar story was with the AVT-40, automatic SVT was tested before the war and it was recognized: well this is stupid. But during the war, field workshops began to modernize their SVT in AVT and began sending reports to the factory: automatic fire is very useful in critical defense situations, send us more AVT. At first, the factory refused to produce AVT, referring to the test report of automatic fire, and then surrendered, and from 1943 until 1945, the SVT was produced only as an AVT.


Sort of. The AVT was produced in limited numbers because the Red Army had a critical machine gun shortage and were looking at alternative solutions (including mass deployment of submachine guns). The AVT was deployed and used, but the SVT was not designed for automatic fire and sustained use as such rapidly wore on the chamber and barrel. Finding it unreliable, the AVT was cancelled and troops were ordered to use the remaining rifles on semi-auto only, any AVT's that were sent for repair or refurbishment had the automatic function removed in the process.
6 Oct 2019, 23:21 PM
#16
avatar of GI John 412

Posts: 488 | Subs: 1



Armored Riflemen -

Long ranged oriented mechanized riflemen squad equipped with an M1919A6 LMG and carried by an M3 Halftrack. The core opposite to the Cav Riflemen.

Would give another mechanized sort of commander a unique squad to play with.

I got some more but these are the ones off the top of my head for now.


Cool idea!

That could be easy to add to a future commander, but I don’t think I’d make them a special squad, maybe just a squad of Riflemen that comes pre-upgraded with the M1919A6 LMG in the back of a halftrack as a call in, kinda like the Grenadier halftrack the Wehrmacht gets in some commanders.

Better yet, have them come in an M3A1 scour car from the Soviets. Call it a “Rifleman Recon Group”, a squad of Riflemen equipped with an M1919A6 LMG that comes in the back of an M3A1 Scout car, come in at 1 or 2 CPs, (whatever is the same as the Wehrmacht halftrack Grenadier call in) and have the cost be about the same.

No need to make it a special named version of Riflemen, the free LMG and the Scout car they ride in would make it unique enough.
7 Oct 2019, 03:57 AM
#17
avatar of Mr. Someguy

Posts: 4490

There are unused voices intended for black rear echelons, I'd love add them as part of a doctrine or unit inspired by the "Black Panthers" 761st Tank Battalion. Not sure what I'd put in it, from the sounds of it they'd be good for infantry, engineers, and/or vehicle crews.

7 Oct 2019, 05:10 AM
#18
avatar of Kasarov
Senior Modmaker Badge

Posts: 330 | Subs: 1

Guards with helmets when?

I still can't believe an Eastern Front game exists that doesn't have a Panzer III.
7 Oct 2019, 06:06 AM
#19
avatar of GI John 412

Posts: 488 | Subs: 1

There are unused voices intended for black rear echelons, I'd love add them as part of a doctrine or unit inspired by the "Black Panthers" 761st Tank Battalion. Not sure what I'd put in it, from the sounds of it they'd be good for infantry, engineers, and/or vehicle crews.



That’s a cool idea, but I’m not sure if they (Relic) want to touch on the subject of segregation. After all, the removed the black rear echelon troops from the game after the beta of USF for that very reason. Plus there would be underlying racial problems if they were weaker or stronger than white units.

Black soldiers fought hard and well during the war and are often underrepresented in games, especially RTS games, but it’s also hard to do history justice on the subject of segregation in a video game.

On one hand if you have a unit that is all black, that would be historically correct only if the whole USF faction was all black, since segregation of the army was effected at higher levels than individual squads. On the other hand if you ignore history completely like Battlefield 1 and V or Call of duty WWII’s multiplayers then you aren’t doing history justice either.

Call of Duty:WWII actually did it right in the campaign where there is only one black soldier and he is a messenger from another all black unit who ends up with you for a few missions. Even this correct depiction of history got a lot of criticism for having a “token black guy”. I fear that any black unit would also be labeled a “token black unit”, and draw criticism even if it was done well.

I don’t know if it was the “right” call for Relic to remove them, but it was definitely the safest option.
7 Oct 2019, 06:08 AM
#20
avatar of GI John 412

Posts: 488 | Subs: 1

Guards with helmets when?

I still can't believe an Eastern Front game exists that doesn't have a Panzer III.


Right!?!

CoH 3 better have Panzer IIIs, no matter what the setting. They were so prevalent that it’s crazy that they weren’t featured in CoH 2, especially since there were so many chances to add it in to OKW or via a new commander to Ostheer.
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