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MG34 for Obers comes too late!

13 Sep 2019, 00:08 AM
#1
avatar of Balanced_Gamer

Posts: 783

Obers MG upgrade comes too late.

There is no reason going for Obers early because it is just a waste of MP since you will bleed a lot as OKW.

MG34 should be available at the same time when Obers arrive, so at it would have an impact when you acquire them but without it they simply dont.

Currently, there is no point getting them when they are ineffective once acquired without upgrade.


It should NOT be locked behind "Vehicle Authorisation". Makes no sense, MG34 is not a tank lol.

Falls will always be the better option and Obers will be and I am sure will hardly ever be used. It still would be same timing as the patch before, only late late game.

The change was a start but it was rather meager since there is no reason nor incentive in getting Obers, same goes for FHT but that is on another forum.

It needs to be adjusted properly that it arrives in the appropriate time. Make the MG34 upgrade come earlier or not locked behind tech since it is simply ridiculous. So there is actually a reason for going last base.

Risk not using lights in turn for using another unit but there is no point in doing that now because there is more to lose than to gain.

If I go for Obers, there should be some pay off but it is simply a waste since not only do you expose yourself to being vulnerable in the AT department but mainly in the AI department.



I mean tell me one good reason why even anyone should even consider getting Obers early at all, aside from being elite?

They are useless without the MG by their time of arrival. It dampens your overall effect.

It is just an available feature that serves no real purpose until you unlock "Panzer Authorization" which is crap really.

Obers are essentially cost ineffective when you just use them without even an upgrade.


What I am stating is that currently when anyone wishes to decide to go for Obers, it only just sacrifices your ability to gain map control over support and lights.

Sacrifices AT strength and on top mainly your AI strength. That is what getting Obers costs you.

There is zero reason to go for Obers when it is just going to put you a bad spot.


Obers should be revamped better similar to how Falls are since at least they have made a decision were they can scale.

Decent in the beginning and better later on.

Not like that with Obers being crap/ineffective (without MG since it is pointless) than start being effective.

Obers by its current design is bad. Starting as weak & ineffective when you initially get them but once you upgrade them, that is when it starts being strong & effective.




Obers should be revamped a bit.

Instead of having 4 Kar, they have 2 Kar and 2 G43. In turn for accuracy reduction. So that they have an ability to combat decently efficiently from their initial arrival. I suggested this idea before, but now they implemented this similarly for Falls instead!

Which is interesting but that is what the point was.

That they have an impact which they dont even have currently upon arrival. At least this change would make them able to defend themselves in short and mid range better.

That would be a revamp worth making in order to make it viable. Now it is just pointless. Same as it is being pointless for getting FHT.

Proof of what I said before is true: Just look to Obers change, others were ideas some ideas for their incompetence.

Click here || https://www.coh2.org/topic/92330/sturmpio-define-its-role-okw-infantry-revamp/post/754367
13 Sep 2019, 00:09 AM
#2
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13374 | Subs: 1

Once more it is not the LMG Ober that come too late it is that every other elite unit that comes too early...
13 Sep 2019, 00:15 AM
#3
avatar of SturmTigerVorgo

Posts: 307

Just blob harder man, why you need obers lol
13 Sep 2019, 00:15 AM
#4
avatar of Balanced_Gamer

Posts: 783

jump backJump back to quoted post13 Sep 2019, 00:09 AMVipper
Once more it is not the LMG Ober that come too late it is that every other elite unit that comes too early...



I am talking about Obers. I dont care about the other units. It does not help if facts are ignored. As you state, other elites coming earlier is an issue but it wont help nerfing their timing since it has been always like that. Why nerf their timing anyway?

The problem has actually always been is where and when Obers would be best suited. Yet it is placed in a poor adjustment, timing and placement.

USF Paras can acquire 2LMGs way earlier than Ober arrival in addition to how ridiculously longer it takes just to even acquire 1LMG. Makes no sense.

Obers MG locked behind another 100 mp and 60 fuel is simply batshit ridiculous.

Obers is just an improved gren currently, nothing more. It has a very low impact while the other elites are having high impact.

MG34 should be available without the need to further tech ridiculously.
13 Sep 2019, 00:19 AM
#5
avatar of Balanced_Gamer

Posts: 783

Just blob harder man, why you need obers lol


You are joking, right?
13 Sep 2019, 00:25 AM
#6
avatar of SturmTigerVorgo

Posts: 307



You are joking, right?

No really joking, why you need obers for? that moving lmg is super strong, if you get it too early the allies will start crying. obers are strong enough without the lmg.
13 Sep 2019, 04:42 AM
#7
avatar of gbem

Posts: 1979

Soo you want lmg obers to potentially come earlier than 7 man conscripts?

Also falls making obers obsolete is more of a falls being OP issue as opposed to obers being UP
13 Sep 2019, 05:49 AM
#8
avatar of Balanced_Gamer

Posts: 783

jump backJump back to quoted post13 Sep 2019, 04:42 AMgbem
Soo you want lmg obers to potentially come earlier than 7 man conscripts?

Also falls making obers obsolete is more of a falls being OP issue as opposed to obers being UP


No, that is not what the point is. You are just twisting the point.

I mean tell me one good reason why even anyone should even consider getting Obers early at all, aside from being elite?

They are useless without the MG by their time of arrival. It dampens your overall effect.

It is just an available feature that serves no real purpose until you unlock "Panzer Authorization" which is crap really.

Obers are essentially cost ineffective when you just use them without even an upgrade.


What I am stating is that currently when anyone wishes to decide to go for Obers, it only just sacrifices your ability to gain map control over support and lights.

Sacrifices AT strength and on top mainly your AI strength. That is what getting Obers costs you.

There is zero reason to go for Obers when it is just going to put you a bad spot.


Obers should be revamped better similar to how Falls are since at least they have made a decision were they can scale.

Decent in the beginning and better later on.

Not like that with Obers being crap/ineffective (without MG since it is pointless) than start being effective.

Obers by its current design is bad. Starting as weak & ineffective when you initially get them but once you upgrade them, that is when it starts being strong & effective.




Obers should be revamped a bit.

Instead of having 4 Kar, they have 2 Kar and 2 G43. In turn for accuracy reduction. So that they have an ability to combat decently efficiently from their initial arrival. I suggested this idea before, but now they implemented this similarly for Falls instead!

Which is interesting but that is what the point was.

That they have an impact which they dont even have currently upon arrival. At least this change would make them able to defend themselves in short and mid range better.

That would be a revamp worth making in order to make it viable. Now it is just pointless. Same as it is being pointless for getting FHT.

Proof of what I said before is true: Just look to Obers change, others were ideas some ideas for their incompetence.

Click here || https://www.coh2.org/topic/92330/sturmpio-define-its-role-okw-infantry-revamp/post/754367
13 Sep 2019, 06:10 AM
#9
avatar of Sander93

Posts: 3164 | Subs: 7

Obers by its current design is bad. Starting as weak & ineffective when you initially get them


Uhm, stock Obers have 0.7 target size and the best rifles in the game. They are not weak at all without their LMG 34 or IR STG 44. Especially not at their new potential timing.
13 Sep 2019, 06:11 AM
#10
avatar of Balanced_Gamer

Posts: 783

Against any other elite unit in game. It is definitely not that strong upon initial arrival.

DPS between grens and obers are fairly similar by default K98.

13 Sep 2019, 06:14 AM
#11
avatar of GI John 412

Posts: 495 | Subs: 1



Obers should be revamped a bit.

Instead of having 4 Kar, they have 2 Kar and 2 G43. In turn for accuracy reduction. So that they have an ability to combat decently efficiently from their initial arrival. I suggested this idea before, but now they implemented this similarly for Falls instead!

Which is interesting but that is what the point was.

That they have an impact which they dont even have currently upon arrival. At least this change would make them able to defend themselves in short and mid range better.

That would be a revamp worth making in order to make it viable. Now it is just pointless. Same as it is being pointless for getting FHT.


Obers having Kar98s that are vastly superior to other bolt action rifles has always been a point of contention for me. I don’t care how “elite” Obers are, there is a limiting factor on how good ANYONE can be if they are armed with a bolt action rifle.

HOWEVER! The idea of an elite unit is totally fine if you arm them accordingly.

I would revise Obersoldaten to start with 4 G43s that have a faster rate of fire but lower damage per shot in order to make their overall DPS slightly higher than it is now, say maybe 10-20% higher. In exchange, reduce the cost on the LMG34 by about 10 munitions and reduce its DPS by about 10-20%. This way Obersoldaten start out better and are worth getting early even if you don’t or can’t upgrade them, but also keeps their DPS the same once they have their upgrade. It would also make their much better stock rifles make more sense. It’s would also be nice to see more weapon diversity in the non doctrinal OKW lineup as they currently only have Kar98ks (Volks, weapon crews and Obersoldaten) and StG44s (Sturm Pios and upgraded Volks).

13 Sep 2019, 06:21 AM
#12
avatar of Balanced_Gamer

Posts: 783



Obers having Kar98s that are vastly superior to other bolt action rifles has always been a point of contention for me. I don’t care how “elite” Obers are, there is a limiting factor on how good ANYONE can be if they are armed with a bolt action rifle.

HOWEVER! The idea of an elite unit is totally fine if you arm them accordingly.

I would revise Obersoldaten to start with 4 G43s that have a faster rate of fire but lower damage per shot in order to make their overall DPS slightly higher than it is now, say maybe 10-20% higher. In exchange, reduce the cost on the LMG34 by about 10 munitions and reduce its DPS by about 10-20%. This way Obersoldaten start out better and are worth getting early even if you don’t or can’t upgrade them, but also keeps their DPS the same once they have their upgrade. It would also make their much better stock rifles make more sense. It’s would also be nice to see more weapon diversity in the non doctrinal OKW lineup as they currently only have Kar98ks (Volks, weapon crews and Obersoldaten) and StG44s (Sturm Pios and upgraded Volks).



Great. Exactly the point.

It should be effective from the start when you acquire with or even without upgrade.


Design should be competence and viability from initial purchase. Upgrade should be an alternative and not "a must purchase" in order to make them any good.


Yeah, 4 G43s wont hurt. Maybe it should be 10 damage or 12 damage per shot and accuracy remains fairly similar.

Just a change so that the default Obers are improved in DPS in the beginning but not that much different when you purchase the MG later on!

13 Sep 2019, 09:08 AM
#13
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13374 | Subs: 1


I am talking about Obers. I dont care about the other units. It does not help if facts are ignored. As you state, other elites coming earlier is an issue but it wont help nerfing their timing since it has been always like that. Why nerf their timing anyway?
...

I think you are full understand timing. When Relic lowered the CP of shocks and Guards to CP 1 without any other changes they proved completely OP and dominated the field.

So timing of Obers is related to the timing of other powerful units.

And no it has never like that. The timing of powerful units and upgrades has becoming increasing sorter.

This is definitely a step in the wrong direction and earlier obers will not fix it.
13 Sep 2019, 09:20 AM
#14
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 4474

nah mg 34 can stay locked but ober them self should come earlier, without mg34 they perform similar to penal

2 options:

1 decrease the cost of tier 4 to 20-40 fuel and add the jp4 to it too, increase PA cost to 100-80 fu

2 decrease the cost to tier 4 to 30 fuel make it so it can be built first like other trucks, increase cost of PA to 90 and make it so it needs 2 truck to be upgraded

like this they come only a bit later than pgreen and not way after a t-70
13 Sep 2019, 09:23 AM
#15
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17633 | Subs: 9

jump backJump back to quoted post13 Sep 2019, 09:08 AMVipper

I think you are full understand timing. When Relic lowered the CP of shocks and Guards to CP 1 without any other changes they proved completely OP and dominated the field.

So timing of Obers is related to the timing of other powerful units.

Obers being that level of a powerful infantry and being stock unit kind of defeats your argument.
While guards or shocks are strong, you don't always have access to them regardless of what you do.
They also don't have 2 powerful offensive nades, ability to trap points, wolverines regenerative powers and suppression on demand through vet while having best weapon to snipe models right after sniper itself, lmg34.

While infantries you've mentioned are indeed strong, there is a considerable gap in capabilities compared to terminators obers are.

And no it has never like that. The timing of powerful units and upgrades has becoming increasing sorter.

This is definitely a step in the wrong direction and earlier obers will not fix it.

The potency of these units also is going down rapidly.
Rangers being dictionary example of that.
13 Sep 2019, 09:29 AM
#16
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13374 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post13 Sep 2019, 09:23 AMKatitof


Read understand respond and pls do not quote me if what you are going to post is completely irrelevant.

I did not compare the Ober with Guards and Shocks, I simply used them as example for the importance of timing.
13 Sep 2019, 18:05 PM
#17
avatar of pvtgooner

Posts: 359

Is there an OKW unit that you DONT think needs to be reworked? I swear the only thing you post is buff OKW idea threads.
13 Sep 2019, 22:18 PM
#18
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2

nah mg 34 can stay locked but ober them self should come earlier, without mg34 they perform similar to penal

2 options:

1 decrease the cost of tier 4 to 20-40 fuel and add the jp4 to it too, increase PA cost to 100-80 fu

2 decrease the cost to tier 4 to 30 fuel make it so it can be built first like other trucks, increase cost of PA to 90 and make it so it needs 2 truck to be upgraded

like this they come only a bit later than pgreen and not way after a t-70


It's not gonna happen what you suggest. Make it more realistic.

While the current approach seems to be cautious due to other changes been applied to the game and waiting to see where OKW meta will go after Spec Ops has been call in nerfed, i think MoD already said that they thought about making the JPIV linked with Obers.

I think it would had been much better a 80f Schwerer with Obers + LMG34 unlocked coming with JPIV. P. acquisition as a one time thing to buy which unlocks tanks forever and the Flak gun as something which has to be re-bought if the Flak HQ is destroyed.

If OKW ends up been weak in this meta, this is something that could be tried.

PD: are their K98 supposed to have passive suppression ?
13 Sep 2019, 22:45 PM
#19
avatar of SpaceCow

Posts: 47



Uhm, stock Obers have 0.7 target size and the best rifles in the game. They are not weak at all without their LMG 34 or IR STG 44. Especially not at their new potential timing.


Yup, Stock obers are actually quite strong. Lmg behind tech is fine, but IRStgs take an entire doctrine slot. Also, right now IRStg obers come online much latter than fully upgraded falls. Of course falls need a bit of a nerf but thats something for another thread.
14 Sep 2019, 00:27 AM
#20
avatar of Outsider_Sidaroth

Posts: 1323 | Subs: 1

Trying to improve Falls is what lead us to them feeling a bit too cheesy/cheap right now, sometimes units might be underutilized, but it's no reason to do drastic changes that might turn out to be pure dynamite.
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