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russian armor

Inconsistencies

12 Sep 2019, 16:06 PM
#1
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13374 | Subs: 1

The game still has a very large number of inconsistencies that imo should be iron out, this is a first examples with other to follow:

Maxims


The sprint ability was removed from maxim yet it remains to .50 and Dhsk. Imo the ability could easily be replaced by AP round or something else.
12 Sep 2019, 16:15 PM
#2
avatar of aerafield

Posts: 2792 | Subs: 4

50cal lost the sprint already
12 Sep 2019, 16:16 PM
#3
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13374 | Subs: 1

50cal lost the sprint already
that leaves Dshk then
12 Sep 2019, 17:23 PM
#4
avatar of |GB| The Lnt.599

Posts: 321 | Subs: 1

easily to replace by ap rounds? GUESS WHAT both 50. call and dshka already have AP rounds :oops:

unbelievable how people are still talking like experts but don't know the current state of the units they talk balance about :clap:
12 Sep 2019, 18:23 PM
#5
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13374 | Subs: 1

easily to replace by ap rounds? GUESS WHAT both 50. call and dshka already have AP rounds :oops:

unbelievable how people are still talking like experts but don't know the current state of the units they talk balance about :clap:

I am perfectly aware of that but with the USF tech changes there is little reason for non vetted AP rounds for these HMG. It can be moved to vet 1 and be consistent with axis hmgs.
12 Sep 2019, 18:35 PM
#6
avatar of |GB| The Lnt.599

Posts: 321 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post12 Sep 2019, 18:23 PMVipper

I am perfectly aware of that but with the USF tech changes there is little reason for non vetted AP rounds for these HMG. It can be moved to vet 1 and be consistent with axis hmgs.


just as much aware as u were of the sprint :lolol:
12 Sep 2019, 20:00 PM
#7
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post12 Sep 2019, 18:23 PMVipper

I am perfectly aware of that but with the USF tech changes there is little reason for non vetted AP rounds for these HMG. It can be moved to vet 1 and be consistent with axis hmgs.


It could be done, but then you should give the same bonuses. At the moment they are all different.
IIRC: Dhska is only pen, .50cal is 25%dmg +base pen and IR +100%dmg +base pen.


-All flares should reveal camouflaged squads. (NOTE: OKW artillery flares don't reveal, which i thought they did)
-All the boost performance and give infantry speed doctrinal abilities. Performance + cost. As been discussed on other threads, i think it's better to remove sprint while in combat.
-Don't think so but i'll mention it: MG upgrade cost for tanks.

Some interesting planes interactions:
-This is still up.
https://www.coh2.org/topic/83547/vision-offmap-planes
It only applies to planes which can provide vision on their own.
-Planes, as entities, seems able to reveal cloaked unit as any other normal unit if the plane pass over a camouflaged unit, if you have vision over the area.

-OH:
Incendiary bombing run works as a recon plane in the same manner as Stuka Smoke bombs. Both of them don't extended reveal zones (camo).
Stuka AT strafe provides vision. Not suppression one.
-SU:
Airborne Guards IL2 provides vision
Mark Vehicle: provides small vision but extended detection range.
IL2 bombing, strafing and rocket provides vision.
-OKW:
Stuka smoke bomb doesn't get extended detection range.
Airborne assault AI planes provide vision.
Sector assault none of them.

I got tired but sometime i will continue this.
12 Sep 2019, 20:20 PM
#8
avatar of Mr. Someguy

Posts: 4928

DShK anti-armor could use a boost, it's the largest caliber machine gun of any faction and yet it's barely better than an MG 42 (which makes up for the lower penetration with a high rate of fire). The DShK and M2 with Armor Piercing rounds are both inferior to the MG 34 with Armor Piercing Incendiary, and the MG 42 is in a league of it's own with that shit.
15 Sep 2019, 11:35 AM
#9
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13374 | Subs: 1

Although these vehicles are of the same class there is a big difference in rear armor. This difference makes most allied medium flaking tank have around 100% chance to penetrate while the PzIV significantly lower even at range 0.

Elefant rear armor 110
JT rear armor 110
ISU-152 armor 155


Churchill Avre 180
SturmTiger armor 110

Brumbar 105 (136.5 vet2)
KV-1 165
Churchill 180

Panther/PanzerIV rear armor at 90
Comet rear armor 110

At vet 2:
Panther 99
PnzerIV 117 which is actually one of the highest rear armor value for any axis vehicle (behind Tiger/Brumbar vet 2 probably).

Panzer IV J/OKW
rear armor 90
15 Sep 2019, 11:41 AM
#10
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13374 | Subs: 1

The CP/tech requirement for doctrinal tanks is also messed up, here are a few examples:
Valentine tank, probably the only tank with CP requirement only.

Dozer 105 has both CP and tech requirement while the superior dozer upgrade that provides a better vehicles does not have any requirement.

(Dozzer upgrade imo should be removed since it can be used to upgrade teammate tanks)
15 Sep 2019, 11:43 AM
#11
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13374 | Subs: 1

USF/Soviet M5 as CP , while UKF at CP2 which is probably too early compared to the weaker 250 also available at CP 2.
15 Sep 2019, 11:44 AM
#12
avatar of Acidfreak

Posts: 281

jump backJump back to quoted post15 Sep 2019, 11:35 AMVipper
Although these vehicles are of the same class there is a big difference in rear armor. This difference makes most allied medium flaking tank have around 100% chance to penetrate while the PzIV significantly lower even at range 0.

Elefant rear armor 110
JT rear armor 110
ISU-152 armor 155

Give stats of frontal armor please as well.
15 Sep 2019, 11:48 AM
#13
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13374 | Subs: 1


Give stats of frontal armor please as well.

you can find almost up to date stat here:https://coh2db.com/stats/

But this is not about balance but about inconsistencies and that is why it is lobby section.
15 Sep 2019, 12:01 PM
#14
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13374 | Subs: 1

AT partisan is the only infiltration/paradropped unit that spawns with AT weapon it is also the only with a shreck unit that gets penetration as a vet bonus it also get first strike bonuses and has a snare...
(The commander is probably UP)

Partisan are the only squad conscripts can not merge to, a left over from when they had 40 HP.
15 Sep 2019, 14:17 PM
#15
avatar of Acidfreak

Posts: 281

jump backJump back to quoted post15 Sep 2019, 11:48 AMVipper

you can find almost up to date stat here:https://coh2db.com/stats/

But this is not about balance but about inconsistencies and that is why it is lobby section.

I understand and i just checked. But why is it being classified as an inconsistenty? Just asking.
15 Sep 2019, 14:44 PM
#16
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13374 | Subs: 1


I understand and i just checked. But why is it being classified as an inconsistenty? Just asking.

This is why, several vehicles where forgotten about since they where not causing balance issues at time, many of them have received many buff since then:

"Heavy armored Tanks

Developer Comments: We felt the risk associated with flanking a Heavy Armored Vehicle was much too great because of the high rear armor. To help balance this risk vs reward we are reducing rear armor on all heavy armor across the board.

Soviet IS-2 rear armor reduced from 205 to 140
Wehrmacht Tiger & Tiger Ace rear armored reduced from 180 to 140
Wehrmacht Elefant rear armor reduced from 150 to 110
OKW Jagdtiger rear armor reduced from 150 to 110
OKW King Tiger rear armor reduced from 225 to 150
British Comet Tank rear armor reduced from 180 to 130"

The change simply was not implemented across the board.
15 Sep 2019, 16:04 PM
#17
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13374 | Subs: 1

"Cautious movement" for Luch attack targets in range
"Cautious movement" for JP ignores all target, does not or even truck targets unless the target has been acquired out side "Cautious movement".
16 Sep 2019, 05:29 AM
#18
avatar of gbem

Posts: 1979

jump backJump back to quoted post12 Sep 2019, 18:23 PMVipper

I am perfectly aware of that but with the USF tech changes there is little reason for non vetted AP rounds for these HMG. It can be moved to vet 1 and be consistent with axis hmgs.


If you want consistency with axis mgs i expect
1. Ap rounds doubling dps
2. Near instant suppression for the maxim and vickers
3. Access to the kraut teleportation device for the 50 cal maxim and dshk/remove deathloop-The maxim/dshk made 4 man

4. Massively increased arc of fire

I can imagine the axis tears if an mg with mg42 suppression arc and timing were to exist on the allied side
16 Sep 2019, 23:06 PM
#19
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13374 | Subs: 1

Tech requirement for Ostheer doctrinal vehicles is really messed up:

Puma build-able from T2
Stug -E call-in needs CP 5 and BP 2
CP IV call-in needs T3 or T4 and CP 7
Panzer J build-able from HQ needs T3 or T4


Instead of this confusing system make all of the build-able from HQ and give the tech requirement as needed for instance:
Puma T2 or PB2
Stug -E BP2
CPzIV T3 or PB3
PAnzer IV J P3 or PB3
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