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russian armor

Panzer Tactician

15 Aug 2019, 21:50 PM
#1
avatar of Serrith

Posts: 171

This is an very powerful get out of jail free ability which while not as flexible as the sherman smoke, is far more responsive and is available for all vehicles.

I'd like to propose making panzer tactician an upgrade(add smoke launchers or w.e) for each individual vehicle- say 50 munitions. This will nerf the accessibility of the ability while keeping its utility-similar to spotting scopes upgrade.

I dont think the ability needs to be mutually exclusive with other upgrades but that could be a further nerf if it's too much of a no brainers for all vehicles.
15 Aug 2019, 21:57 PM
#2
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 3576

so ..... 50 mun for what usf and ukf have for free... seem fair

at this point just remove mobile defence from the game, i think every ability it had got nerfed (ostruppen no more lmg, puma tied to tier 3, cp4 nerf) and is now useless on it's own imagine all the ability together :snfPeter:
15 Aug 2019, 22:01 PM
#3
avatar of Serrith

Posts: 171

so ..... 50 mun for what usf and ukf have for free... seem fair


They do not have it on every vehicle nor is it as responsive. Imagine if jackson could have smoke launchers or stuart.

If 50 is too much could always be 40.
15 Aug 2019, 22:02 PM
#4
avatar of Hannibal
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 383

The effectiveness of Panzer tactician heavily depends on the skill and micro level. In lower rank play, it's a "My tank will survive" buttons. In mid and high skill play, people will start to target the ground.

Although I don't like to nerf OST much in it's current state, the ability could do with a small delay of 1-2 seconds, since it's instant activation will cause all enemy units to target other squads. With a small delay, OST players would need to think ahead a little bit.

Another option would be to make it a targetable smoke shell like the Cromwell. But that would be a hufe nerf, so I would not like to go down that route.
15 Aug 2019, 22:15 PM
#5
avatar of Serrith

Posts: 171

The effectiveness of Panzer tactician heavily depends on the skill and micro level. In lower rank play, it's a "My tank will survive" buttons. In mid and high skill play, people will start to target the ground.

Although I don't like to nerf OST much in it's current state, the ability could do with a small delay of 1-2 seconds, since it's instant activation will cause all enemy units to target other squads. With a small delay, OST players would need to think ahead a little bit.

Another option would be to make it a targetable smoke shell like the Cromwell. But that would be a hufe nerf, so I would not like to go down that route.


I dont think the utility of the ability needs to be nerfed, only the accessibility.
15 Aug 2019, 22:53 PM
#6
avatar of insaneHoshi

Posts: 907

jump backJump back to quoted post15 Aug 2019, 21:50 PMSerrith
This is an very powerful get out of jail free ability which while not as flexible as the sherman smoke, is far more responsive and is available for all vehicles.


You dont have to pay a command slot for Sherman smoke. Plus the m20 and the m8 scott also have the same get out of jail smoke.

Plus isnt it the case that fausts are cancelled by smoke where as allied inf snares are not? If that was true (i do not recall) it technically makes ailed smoke better by a tiny margin.
ddd
15 Aug 2019, 23:24 PM
#7
avatar of ddd

Posts: 458 | Subs: 1

Panzer tactician requires high IQ to use properly.
16 Aug 2019, 01:10 AM
#8
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 2877 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post15 Aug 2019, 23:24 PMddd
Panzer tactician requires high IQ to use properly.

*clicks once*
*clicks behind tank*
?????
*profits*

on topic, i think its a decent suggestion, though i would rather see it changed to something that can be used offensively than an escape tool, or at least forethought (like a delayed activation)

additionally, remember last patch when the bren carrier's self heal got a cost increase so fausts break even? anyone mind comparing the costs of button, which also requires a hefty muni upgrade to unlock and ptac that cancels it?
16 Aug 2019, 08:08 AM
#9
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 13241 | Subs: 6


additionally, remember last patch when the bren carrier's self heal got a cost increase so fausts break even? anyone mind comparing the costs of button, which also requires a hefty muni upgrade to unlock and ptac that cancels it?


^This.
16 Aug 2019, 09:37 AM
#10
avatar of gbem

Posts: 1164

panzer tactician happens too fast and is way too responsive... i recommend reworking it so that it doesnt immediately pop out or requires a bit more micro like the sherman smoke...
16 Aug 2019, 10:53 AM
#11
avatar of DerbyHat

Posts: 783 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post16 Aug 2019, 09:37 AMgbem
panzer tactician happens too fast and is way too responsive... i recommend reworking it so that it doesnt immediately pop out or requires a bit more micro like the sherman smoke...


Turn it into smoke shell. :o
16 Aug 2019, 11:39 AM
#12
avatar of ullumulu

Posts: 1717

its only there against all this massive AT stuff which allies have.

else you are mostly easily focused down to quick from all the AT sources.


Yeah..katitof will troll an answer. I know.

Here is the answer to your trollpost:
- no axis havent this much high mobile and fast reaction and high alpha at dmg combined with high accu and high penetrations like allies aka Jackson wolfpacks, tulips, massive AT handheld actionsnondoc 17pounders, etc etc
- AT satchels

16 Aug 2019, 12:21 PM
#13
avatar of gbem

Posts: 1164

its only there against all this massive AT stuff which allies have.

and axis doesnt have alot of AT options? why does axis get a cheap and responsive get out of trouble free ability?




else you are mostly easily focused down to quick from all the AT sources.


if you play like an idiot.. then you deserve to be punished... the sherman`s smoke takes alot more skill to use than the single click panzer tactician (the run into your own smoke strategy)... meanwhile the churchill gets its smoke because its soo goddamn slow... and now axis gets a faster more responsive smoke on all of its vehicles including the much faster panther because... bias?

and what of the soviets.... all their mediums have no escape methods whatsoever... but hey axis must get the best everything


Yeah..katitof will troll an answer. I know.

Here is the answer to your trollpost:
- no axis havent this much high mobile and fast reaction and high alpha at dmg combined with high accu and high penetrations like allies aka Jackson wolfpacks, tulips, massive AT handheld actions nondoc 17pounders, etc etc
- AT satchels


all youve proved is that you suck
16 Aug 2019, 12:31 PM
#14
avatar of ullumulu

Posts: 1717

jump backJump back to quoted post16 Aug 2019, 12:21 PMgbem

and axis doesnt have alot of AT options? why does axis get a cheap and responsive get out of trouble free ability?





if you play like an idiot.. then you deserve to be punished... the sherman`s smoke takes alot more skill to use than the single click panzer tactician (the run into your own smoke strategy)... meanwhile the churchill gets its smoke because its soo goddamn slow... and now axis gets a faster more responsive smoke on all of its vehicles including the much faster panther because... bias?

and what of the soviets.... all their mediums have no escape methods whatsoever... but hey axis must get the best everything



all youve proved is that you suck



Chill Beyoncé.

- Ost hasnt a nondoc 60 range TD > must come close to deal dmg vs armor
- Ost has 4model squads
- shermans smoke has alot more potencial: smoke the at gun and run around like a gocart and laugh about the AT gun ..its not the great defend option..but great attack option
- churchhill is slow like KT...but have nearly the same HP...for about 100 full less. and get a nondoc smoke..why u cry?
- panzer tact is a DOC SLOT
- yes it means you can drive into enemys army ..deal dmg and rush away...but competete enemy wouldn let u run away..mines, engine nades, high mobile TDs, attack ground...do a lot and works great
- sov can bully your armor hard from 60 range ..they dont need to come close...they outrange every ost nondoc unit easily.

your life must be hard when u dance here around like beyonce and can´t answer chill and non personal...so you need compensation in a forum
16 Aug 2019, 12:36 PM
#15
avatar of SkysTheLimit

Posts: 1300

so ..... 50 mun for what usf and ukf have for free... seem fair


You repeatedly call out Codguy for making stuff up, yet have no problem doing it yourself

There is not a single USF unit that gets free smoke. Every single one of them costs munitions. If you ever played US you might know that
16 Aug 2019, 13:03 PM
#16
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 3576

I don’t know if u can read, he is asking that each unit needs to be upgraded with 50 min smoke dispenser, THEN u have to still pay normal smoke
So no I’m not making stuff up
16 Aug 2019, 13:09 PM
#17
avatar of gbem

Posts: 1164


- Ost hasnt a nondoc 60 range TD > must come close to deal dmg vs armor


panthers can fill this role despite being 50 range... plus you get the pak 40... an AT gun with TWP


- Ost has 4model squads

that are balanced against the soviet 6 man squad... next


- shermans smoke has alot more potencial: smoke the at gun and run around like a gocart and laugh about the AT gun ..its not the great defend option..but great attack option

and yet panzer tactician is an easy get out of trouble free card... no other ability doctrinal or not grants a unit a get out of trouble free card


- churchhill is slow like KT...but have nearly the same HP...for about 100 full less. and get a nondoc smoke..why u cry?

maybe if the churchill had more armor penetration and squadwiping ability it could lose its smoke... then again the KT needs a bit of help aswell... but its durable enough that it doesnt even need smoke


- panzer tact is a DOC SLOT

allied vehicles (except the churchill) dont get an ability that lets them get out of trouble in the same speed as panzer tactician... sherman smoke... the closest counterpart... doesnt pop out in an instant...

remove speed governor damages the engine right after...

churchill smoke exists because its soo slow but doesnt have the full heavy tank penetration and armor of a regular heavy... without smoke a churchy is going to get eaten by a panther with barely any counterplay...

but sure mah speedy arse axis units can get instasmoke because #balans


- yes it means you can drive into enemys army ..deal dmg and rush away...but competete enemy wouldn let u run away..mines, engine nades, high mobile TDs, attack ground...do a lot and works great

great... now why do their allied counterparts require more micro and arent just doable with a single click of a button?


- sov can bully your armor hard from 60 range ..they dont need to come close...they outrange every ost nondoc unit easily.


meanwhile SOV core infantry gets bullied by the majority of its opponents aswell...




anyways


all im asking is that panzer tactician would require more skill to use than a simple panic button left click to get out of free ability... but maybe thats too hard for your level...


im not asking for price hikes...

im not asking for the removal of the escape mechanism...


im asking that the ability take more than a simple left click to use... smoke shells would be a good change
16 Aug 2019, 13:37 PM
#20
avatar of Balanced_Gamer

Posts: 783

Maybe a delay for 2 seconds or so would do.

I do agree that it is pretty responsive.

It would be nice too see some other axis vehicles having smoke since most allied factions have smoke by default.

OST and SU are the only factions that have zero vehicles with smoke.


WEHR I think what would be great is give the "Scout Car" or "Halftrack" a smoke by default for starters since they are not commonly used!

SU the "Halftrack with Anti Air upgrade" should get smoke by default also since they are not commonly used also.



A solution making these units more viable.

What do you guys think?
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