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Soviet September patch discussion

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23 Aug 2019, 14:35 PM
#401
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 13651 | Subs: 6

jump backJump back to quoted post23 Aug 2019, 13:58 PMStark
Incoming patch is a good moment to look into a T70. This unit is too versatile. It can easily (sometimes even insta) wipe enemy squads, it's super fast, has a good penetration and high rate of fire, vets up quicky and with vet has a small target size so AT guns cannot hit it. With this unit on the field you can kill enemy infantry, stop axis light vehicule play (can 1v1 everything expect puma). Even puma sometimes in specific situations looses vs him. No other faction has such a powerful LV.

Balance team, T70 should at least has reduced penetration that cannot easily counter LV: p2, flak HT, flameHT/222. Reducing power of T70 to make it only AI weapon would open a play for SU76 just like OKW has p2 and puma in mech. Changing AOE would also reduce it's sniper gun into only a damage dealer (like currently p2 is). With T2 price change T70 will hit the field even quicker giving axis player a headache. It's need to be look into.

T-70 has 45 penetration.
For contrast, 222 got 40 and uses much, MUCH smaller gun.

If you get your squads insta wiped by T-70, you should learn to retreat 10% health squads to base for heal and reinforcement.

Its target size is in line with any other light in game.

Why shouldn't it 1v1 axis lights? All of them except puma are much cheaper.

It doesn't "easily" counter lights, because it has very low damage of 40, it takes up to 10 shots to kill other light.

SU-76 isn't supposed to counter lights, well, it is, but its not its primary function, its primary function is to assist/kill meds.

T-70 already has very tiny AoE.

T2 price change does nothing to its timing, because no one in his right mind goes T2 as soviets.

It doesn't need any "looking", it need learning to play against.
23 Aug 2019, 14:42 PM
#402
avatar of gbem

Posts: 1341

jump backJump back to quoted post23 Aug 2019, 13:58 PMStark

Balance team, T70 should at least has reduced penetration that cannot easily counter LV: p2, flak HT, flameHT/222. Reducing power of T70 to make it only AI weapon would open a play for SU76 just like OKW has p2 and puma in mech. Changing AOE would also reduce it's sniper gun into only a damage dealer (like currently p2 is). With T2 price change T70 will hit the field even quicker giving axis player a headache. It's need to be look into.



something tells me you dont actually play the soviets if you think T2 is anywhere NEAR viable even in the patch....

the only time i go T2 is when i backtech for AT guns... period... everything else is worthless in T2
23 Aug 2019, 15:29 PM
#403
avatar of Mr Carmine

Posts: 304

jump backJump back to quoted post23 Aug 2019, 13:58 PMStark
Incoming patch is a good moment to look into a T70. This unit is too versatile. It can easily (sometimes even insta) wipe enemy squads, it's super fast, has a good penetration and high rate of fire, vets up quicky and with vet has a small target size so AT guns cannot hit it. With this unit on the field you can kill enemy infantry, stop axis light vehicule play (can 1v1 everything expect puma). Even puma sometimes in specific situations looses vs him. No other faction has such a powerful LV.

Balance team, T70 should at least has reduced penetration that cannot easily counter LV: p2, flak HT, flameHT/222. Reducing power of T70 to make it only AI weapon would open a play for SU76 just like OKW has p2 and puma in mech. Changing AOE would also reduce it's sniper gun into only a damage dealer (like currently p2 is). With T2 price change T70 will hit the field even quicker giving axis player a headache. It's need to be look into.


I dont think this is needed. It only serves to make everything the same. It does 40 damage and has 50 near pen. Nothing major. Soviets where designed with dual role units in mind, but mostly not excelling at either.

Paks have a pretty decent chance of hitting it. They should however never have 100% chance of hitting it. Ost has a perfect mine hand held at and vet ability to counter it. Imo it artives pretty late compared to luch etc. So it should be strong.

And if the t70 is to versitile as you say, doesnt the new ostwind meet the same critiria. It is a AI AAA and light AT unit.
23 Aug 2019, 15:59 PM
#404
avatar of 13greed47

Posts: 47

Hi. I have a suggestion. Can the m5 half track also have a healing ability? Or soviets only get base healing?
Perhaps when the base healing is activated the halftrack can also heal units as well reinforce?


that would be too much for 1 halftrack. what i would do instead change lend lease commander halftrack for the one with cav riflemen (this one can drop medic crate and refill squad)
23 Aug 2019, 16:45 PM
#405
avatar of Acidfreak

Posts: 128



that would be too much for 1 halftrack. what i would do instead change lend lease commander halftrack for the one with cav riflemen (this one can drop medic crate and refill squad)


Perhaps add some muni cost to activate halftrack healing. Because like other factions soviets need to have mobile healing as well. People say don't compare. But we have to compare for the sake of the game. I think this discussion is already ongoing in the main balance patch thread. And i think adding heal ability to halftrack once base healing is activated is a good option.
Soviets die easily as well. Kind of negate their 6 man bonus.
23 Aug 2019, 16:49 PM
#406
avatar of Acidfreak

Posts: 128

jump backJump back to quoted post23 Aug 2019, 13:58 PMStark
Incoming patch is a good moment to look into a T70. This unit is too versatile. It can easily (sometimes even insta) wipe enemy squads, it's super fast, has a good penetration and high rate of fire, vets up quicky and with vet has a small target size so AT guns cannot hit it. With this unit on the field you can kill enemy infantry, stop axis light vehicule play (can 1v1 everything expect puma). Even puma sometimes in specific situations looses vs him. No other faction has such a powerful LV.

Balance team, T70 should at least has reduced penetration that cannot easily counter LV: p2, flak HT, flameHT/222. Reducing power of T70 to make it only AI weapon would open a play for SU76 just like OKW has p2 and puma in mech. Changing AOE would also reduce it's sniper gun into only a damage dealer (like currently p2 is). With T2 price change T70 will hit the field even quicker giving axis player a headache. It's need to be look into.


Hi. All it takes is 2 volley of shrecks from early pzgren and its gone. And at guns hit it easily. The little time i have spent in this forum im amazed at axis bias. Like seriously you are here to ask for nerfs to only good unit soviets have? And that to in early to mid game.
23 Aug 2019, 17:28 PM
#407
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 3891



Hi. All it takes is 2 volley of shrecks from early pzgren and its gone. And at guns hit it easily. The little time i have spent in this forum im amazed at axis bias. Like seriously you are here to ask for nerfs to only good unit soviets have? And that to in early to mid game.

right now it's more dangerous to leave a squad in front of a t70 than a tiger, while still being a good LV and LT counter

btw to me u seem pretty biased ur self considering if u check the 3 last pages of posts, it's all about buffing allies and nerfing axis, people pretty much ignore or shoot down any buff or rework for axis (the RE thread has more reply than the mobile defense one and we all know which is used and which is a jk :snfPeter: )

if thus forum was biased as u said u would see a ton of "allies are Op" thread NAD mod would ban all pro allies thread

to me it seems the opposite tho
23 Aug 2019, 17:46 PM
#408
avatar of Sully

Posts: 315 | Subs: 2

T70 easily wipes full health squads on retreat unlike the P2, 222, AEC, Stuart, M20, or Greyhound. Why is it the sole exception?

Why is a so called "generalist" unit so much better at killing infantry than the rest, even those that are AI specialists, and better at countering light vehicles than most?

Sounds like a crutch unit to me.
23 Aug 2019, 17:54 PM
#409
avatar of 13greed47

Posts: 47

jump backJump back to quoted post23 Aug 2019, 14:35 PMKatitof

T-70 has 45 penetration.
For contrast, 222 got 40 and uses much, MUCH smaller gun.

If you get your squads insta wiped by T-70, you should learn to retreat 10% health squads to base for heal and reinforcement.

Its target size is in line with any other light in game.

Why shouldn't it 1v1 axis lights? All of them except puma are much cheaper.

It doesn't "easily" counter lights, because it has very low damage of 40, it takes up to 10 shots to kill other light.

SU-76 isn't supposed to counter lights, well, it is, but its not its primary function, its primary function is to assist/kill meds.

T-70 already has very tiny AoE.

T2 price change does nothing to its timing, because no one in his right mind goes T2 as soviets.

It doesn't need any "looking", it need learning to play against.



ya srls people saying t70 is too good in the at departement are blind as hell. only vehicue he can beat are most of the time are the one with no weapons to damage him him even sure ptrs cons or penal are better at than him


p.s. call me crazy but i always open with tier 2 (him kinda not into the spam 4 main infantry tactic, i rather use combine arm even if its more likely to fail then cheese x unit to win)
23 Aug 2019, 17:58 PM
#410
avatar of Acidfreak

Posts: 128


right now it's more dangerous to leave a squad in front of a t70 than a tiger, while still being a good LV and LT counter

btw to me u seem pretty biased ur self considering if u check the 3 last pages of posts, it's all about buffing allies and nerfing axis, people pretty much ignore or shoot down any buff or rework for axis (the RE thread has more reply than the mobile defense one and we all know which is used and which is a jk :snfPeter: )

if thus forum was biased as u said u would see a ton of "allies are Op" thread NAD mod would ban all pro allies thread

to me it seems the opposite tho


I haven't ever talked about nerfing axis. I have talked about improvements to soviets. Most of my posts were about airborne guards and isu. Cuz i have a fascination with them.
23 Aug 2019, 18:00 PM
#411
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 3891




ya srls people saying t70 is too good in the at departement are blind as hell. only vehicue he can beat are most of the time are the one with no weapons to damage him him even sure ptrs cons or penal are better at than him


p.s. call me crazy but i always open with tier 2 (him kinda not into the spam 4 main infantry tactic, i rather use combine arm even if its more likely to fail then cheese x unit to win)

that's the point luch vs t 70 has the same relationship that ostwind vs centaur have, but at least the centaur can't out speed ostiwnd and have better AI , t 70 has very good AI even better than dedicated AI lv AND decent AT
23 Aug 2019, 18:02 PM
#412
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 3891



I haven't ever talked about nerfing axis.
I have talked about improvements to soviets. Most of my posts were about airborne guards and isu. Cuz i have a fascination with them.


im not saying u specifically , i mean literally go to the coh2 central and check the first 3 pages, u claim this site is axis fan boy polluted, but just looking at the title of the threads should give u an hint
23 Aug 2019, 18:06 PM
#413
avatar of Raviloli

Posts: 55


that's the point luch vs t 70 has the same relationship that ostwind vs centaur have, but at least the centaur can't out speed ostiwnd and have better AI


Consider the timing as well, then. the T-70 comes around 60 fuel later than the p2 and gets countered by the Puma which shouldn't come too long after the T-70 hits the field.
23 Aug 2019, 18:11 PM
#414
avatar of Acidfreak

Posts: 128



im not saying u specifically , i mean literally go to the coh2 central and check the first 3 pages, u claim this site is axis fan boy polluted, but just looking at the title of the threads should give u an hint

Fair enough. Im not calling all of the forum biased. Only certainty comments make me think like certain individuals lean towards axis. Im all up for axis buffs as long as alllies get the same treatment.
23 Aug 2019, 18:12 PM
#415
avatar of Farlion

Posts: 151

The only issue with the T-70 is that its too good at wiping units on the retreat. There's not unit that can do it as effectively as the T-70.
23 Aug 2019, 18:12 PM
#416
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 3891



Consider the timing as well, then. the T-70 comes around 60 fuel later than the p2 and gets countered by the Puma which shouldn't come too long after the T-70 hits the field.
more like 30 fuel later okw start with 15 fuel less and the cost of the truck another 15
23 Aug 2019, 18:16 PM
#417
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 6220 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post23 Aug 2019, 17:46 PMSully
T70 easily wipes full health squads on retreat unlike the P2, 222, AEC, Stuart, M20, or Greyhound. Why is it the sole exception?

Why is a so called "generalist" unit so much better at killing infantry than the rest, even those that are AI specialists, and better at countering light vehicles than most?

Sounds like a crutch unit to me.


Isn't the T70 arriving the latest of all the light tanks due to requiring more investment?

AEC-Stuart had been tailored towards been AT. I don't think the T70 can kill any light tank without any assistance from another AT source. At that point, it's equal to the P2 been able to finish other lights with assistance as well.
23 Aug 2019, 18:22 PM
#418
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 3891



Isn't the T70 arriving the latest of all the light tanks due to requiring more investment?

AEC-Stuart had been tailored towards been AT. I don't think the T70 can kill any light tank without any assistance from another AT source. At that point, it's equal to the P2 been able to finish other lights with assistance as well.
??? they heavily nerfed the AT ability of the p2 tho, halved the pen and nerfed the moving accuracy, and it still has worse AI

btw yes it can kill p2 without help
23 Aug 2019, 18:30 PM
#419
avatar of Sully

Posts: 315 | Subs: 2



Isn't the T70 arriving the latest of all the light tanks due to requiring more investment?

AEC-Stuart had been tailored towards been AT. I don't think the T70 can kill any light tank without any assistance from another AT source. At that point, it's equal to the P2 been able to finish other lights with assistance as well.


AEC functions as a generalist that leans towards AT, and Stuart is the opposite in my opinion.

If the P2 arrived a few minutes later at similar timing and had the same lethality as a T70, it wouldn't be ok.

The main issue with the T70 in my eyes is its ability to easily wipe squads on retreat/its accuracy on the move.
23 Aug 2019, 18:53 PM
#420
avatar of zerocoh

Posts: 797



that would be too much for 1 halftrack. what i would do instead change lend lease commander halftrack for the one with cav riflemen (this one can drop medic crate and refill squad)


1 halftrack that all allied factions share...
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