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Why USF so bad in tournaments?

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9 Aug 2019, 19:56 PM
#81
avatar of Hon3ynuts

Posts: 818

USF has a huge problem late game with MP drain. When Panzerwerfer or Stuka comes into play the 280MP rifle are shut down. You can build cheap RE as replacements for weapon pick ups and cap points but they are so lame late game than why even bother. USF generally more micro intensive and almost all of their units require constant baby sitting.


I would second this, I don't typically find rifles lacking too much vs comparable infantry, but once tanks and indirect fire come with explosives that ignore RA, the cost to maintain 4-5 rifles(inluding officers in this), RE's any support weapons can be quite prohibitive.

Additioanlly when you get to late game, if you have gone say 2 officers that's 37 popcap, 6 for vet 3 Re's, 1 major 3, ambulance 3, without any support weapons that's 52 popcap. Limiting your tank pool (IK there is decrewing) and decreasing your manpower income. For example the other day i got 2 officers and 2 support weapons, then I was popcapped with 2 vehicles, a sherman/priest. It's hard to make decisive pushes with limited vehicles and even if successful reinforcing may still drain your reserves.

TLDR: Popcap sucks when you gotta spam rifles
9 Aug 2019, 20:33 PM
#82
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 4474



I would second this, I don't typically find rifles lacking too much vs comparable infantry, but once tanks and indirect fire come with explosives that ignore RA, the cost to maintain 4-5 rifles(inluding officers in this), RE's any support weapons can be quite prohibitive.

Additioanlly when you get to late game, if you have gone say 2 officers that's 37 popcap, 6 for vet 3 Re's, 1 major 3, ambulance 3, without any support weapons that's 52 popcap. Limiting your tank pool (IK there is decrewing) and decreasing your manpower income. For example the other day i got 2 officers and 2 support weapons, then I was popcapped with 2 vehicles, a sherman/priest. It's hard to make decisive pushes with limited vehicles and even if successful reinforcing may still drain your reserves.

TLDR: Popcap sucks when you gotta spam rifles

1 if 5 men are weak to explosive immagine using gren
2 USF can surpass the pop cap limit thank to the crew mechanic, if u have pop cap problems with USF immagine any other faction whom can’t use crew mechanic
9 Aug 2019, 22:54 PM
#83
avatar of Hon3ynuts

Posts: 818


1 if 5 men are weak to explosive immagine using gren
2 USF can surpass the pop cap limit thank to the crew mechanic, if u have pop cap problems with USF immagine any other faction whom can’t use crew mechanic



I didn't mention squad size and I acknowledged the popcap
Did you even read the post?
From Original post
1 "explosives that ignore RA"
2"IK there is decrewing"
9 Aug 2019, 23:04 PM
#84
avatar of distrofio

Posts: 2358




I didn't mention squad size and I acknowledged the popcap
Did you even read the post?
From Original post
1 "explosives that ignore RA"
2"IK there is decrewing"

Let me put it in simpler words for you then:
USF IS THE EASIEST OF ALL FACTIONS TO DEAL WITH POPCAP AND AOE DAMAGE, COMPARED TO OST (4man squads) OR OKW (highest popcaps)
12 Aug 2019, 07:34 AM
#85
avatar of LSDuffy

Posts: 117

OKW is also bad lol
14 Aug 2019, 07:27 AM
#86
avatar of Loren

Posts: 107

USF's Rifleman has 0 advantages for make baselines. even conscripts are better.
280/28 cost is same as Tommies, but look at the specs. why so ineffective like this?
Rifleman in most cases are forced to hug cause Garand has low long-range DPS.
semi-automatic rifle in ww2 is trash? :/ what a historical accurate.
14 Aug 2019, 07:29 AM
#87
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 4474

How to spot a fan boy: “cons are better than rifle”
14 Aug 2019, 07:32 AM
#88
avatar of Loren

Posts: 107

How to spot a fan boy: “cons are better than rifle”

that means baseline infantry needs cost-effectiveness. it's same scenario as Assault grens wins rifleman, but why assgren su1cks than rifleman.
14 Aug 2019, 08:23 AM
#89
avatar of Sander93

Posts: 3166 | Subs: 6

jump backJump back to quoted post14 Aug 2019, 07:27 AMLoren
280/28 cost is same as Tommies, but look at the specs. why so ineffective like this?


Because Riflemen can be supported by very strong team weapons, doctrinal elite infantry and light vehicles, while Infantry Sections have to do most of the heavy weightlifting on their own.
14 Aug 2019, 08:50 AM
#90
avatar of Jilet

Posts: 556

jump backJump back to quoted post14 Aug 2019, 07:27 AMLoren
what a historical accurate.


I guess you want to see a single Jagtiger killing 30 Shermans too. But breaking engines would be fun.
14 Aug 2019, 11:09 AM
#91
avatar of gbem

Posts: 1979

jump backJump back to quoted post14 Aug 2019, 07:27 AMLoren
USF's Rifleman has 0 advantages for make baselines. even conscripts are better.
280/28 cost is same as Tommies, but look at the specs. why so ineffective like this?
Rifleman in most cases are forced to hug cause Garand has low long-range DPS.
semi-automatic rifle in ww2 is trash? :/ what a historical accurate.


HAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHA

every veteran player here will state that rifles are far superior to cons... this is just ridiculous
14 Aug 2019, 13:37 PM
#92
avatar of RifleMan

Posts: 52

Yeah, avoid playing USF in teamgames, I have been playing only UKF/SOV when I'm playing allies, especially in 3v3s or 4v4s...
I agree, riflemen is kinda good in some situations, but when facing OKW build with 4 volks and a SP while you just have 3 RM and a RE squad is really hard to handle and it just snowballs from there most of the times and the officers are not even that good, I think the officers should be optional unit to build because of the massive MP bleed, I would rather get mgs as it can hold the front and don't bleed much vs a officer, that would fix a good chunk of the USF problem.
16 Aug 2019, 00:29 AM
#93
avatar of Loren

Posts: 107

jump backJump back to quoted post14 Aug 2019, 11:09 AMgbem


HAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHA

every veteran player here will state that rifles are far superior to cons... this is just ridiculous


lol

every veteran player? who?

I know at least one veteran player who says conscript is op. Ashablois, a user who also participated in the few matchs, agrees that the conscripts are now far superior to Riflemen.
16 Aug 2019, 01:33 AM
#94
avatar of CODGUY

Posts: 884

jump backJump back to quoted post16 Aug 2019, 00:29 AMLoren


lol

every veteran player? who?

I know at least one veteran player who says conscript is op. Ashablois, a user who also participated in the few matchs, agrees that the conscripts are now far superior to Riflemen.


Riflemen have been garbage as long as I've been playing since 2017. Nothings been done to address this in that time either.
16 Aug 2019, 03:37 AM
#95
avatar of mrgame2

Posts: 1793

Yeah, avoid playing USF in teamgames, I have been playing only UKF/SOV when I'm playing allies, especially in 3v3s or 4v4s...
I agree, riflemen is kinda good in some situations, but when facing OKW build with 4 volks and a SP while you just have 3 RM and a RE squad is really hard to handle and it just snowballs from there most of the times and the officers are not even that good, I think the officers should be optional unit to build because of the massive MP bleed, I would rather get mgs as it can hold the front and don't bleed much vs a officer, that would fix a good chunk of the USF problem.


What? I love usf in 4v4.
Easily the funniest and good faction.
Their like ost but with more mobility and packs a punch late games.
You can build cheap fp to lock down sectors with atg, while you run around with rifles blob.
You just need to retreat rifles earlier until you vet up , then with bars, they are terminator.
Jacksons and a scott easily deal with ost. Add a calliope if against blob and panzerwafer or priests against okws and lefh.

Best 4v4 faction imo
ddd
16 Aug 2019, 14:58 PM
#96
avatar of ddd

Posts: 528 | Subs: 1

USF is bad in tournaments because scott and jackson are overperforming. Once they get nerfed usf players will be forced to use easy8, 76sherman and mortar HT and then usf will finally perform as expected (#USFOP).
16 Aug 2019, 15:17 PM
#97
avatar of Dangerous-Cloth

Posts: 2066

Shit narrow maps that negate USF design an playstyle.

/thread
16 Aug 2019, 17:33 PM
#98
avatar of WingZero

Posts: 1484

Shit narrow maps that negate USF design an playstyle.

/thread


Agree!
16 Aug 2019, 19:47 PM
#99
avatar of VonIvan

Posts: 2487 | Subs: 21

Speaking in terms of 1v1. USF early game is brutal if you don't blob effectively and retreat early, especially against OKW. Mid game is when usf shines due to double bars being superior and inf reaching critical mass with light vehicle support. The issue is keeping up with axis light vehicle and medium armor coming out and being superior. I have found triple bazooka rangers are a nice way to compensate for lack of hard counters. Especially since at guns are easy to wipe and flank
ddd
16 Aug 2019, 19:54 PM
#100
avatar of ddd

Posts: 528 | Subs: 1

That means 2 semi viable commanders. Still better than pershing stall every game, i see progress! Nice job! :)
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