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So when do Riflemen get an upgrade to six men?

17 Jun 2019, 00:53 AM
#21
avatar of murky depths

Posts: 607

jump backJump back to quoted post17 Jun 2019, 00:41 AMRocket
hahah no they dont never have

Edit i dont want to say never because at one time they and it made sense for usf early game because of okw and axis in general would auto win if the game clock hit 40 mins as usf late game was non existent


I was curious about this so I figured I't test it in cheat/mod-tools, which I'm always confused why people don't bother doing but oh well.

I did 6 comparisons of riflemen v volksgrenadiers.

2 at max range with no cover. --> These were 50/50 of who won and it was super close in both cases with the winning squad having a sliver of HP left on the last model.

2 at max range with green cover. --> These were 50/50 too, but not as close in HP -- one round riflemen won, one round volks won, and whoever won had 3 remaining models around half HP. My guess is the green cover nature of things means the fight is longer and so whoever drops a model first has a distinct and longitudinal disadvantage.

2 at close range with no cover. Rifles won, not even close.

Dunno... rifles are more expensive but if they are about equal at max range and have an advantage at close range, eh probably fine.

EDIT: Oh one thing I did notice is that if Volks wipe a rifle-squad, the hit vet 1. If rifles wipe a volks-squad, they do _not_ hit vet 1.
17 Jun 2019, 00:54 AM
#22
avatar of Warspite

Posts: 45

Permanently Banned
Rifles are great and u still have Paths etc to support them even though they got a justified nerf
17 Jun 2019, 01:58 AM
#23
avatar of CODGUY

Posts: 884



I was curious about this so I figured I't test it in cheat/mod-tools, which I'm always confused why people don't bother doing but oh well.

I did 6 comparisons of riflemen v volksgrenadiers.

2 at max range with no cover. --> These were 50/50 of who won and it was super close in both cases with the winning squad having a sliver of HP left on the last model.

2 at max range with green cover. --> These were 50/50 too, but not as close in HP -- one round riflemen won, one round volks won, and whoever won had 3 remaining models around half HP. My guess is the green cover nature of things means the fight is longer and so whoever drops a model first has a distinct and longitudinal disadvantage.

2 at close range with no cover. Rifles won, not even close.

Dunno... rifles are more expensive but if they are about equal at max range and have an advantage at close range, eh probably fine.

EDIT: Oh one thing I did notice is that if Volks wipe a rifle-squad, the hit vet 1. If rifles wipe a volks-squad, they do _not_ hit vet 1.


So Rifles do suck but I knew that already. Worst 280 MP in the game. They should be more like Penals for that cost.
17 Jun 2019, 02:09 AM
#24
avatar of SkysTheLimit

Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post17 Jun 2019, 00:47 AMRocket

Dont want a six man rofle squad at all just adds to game being further effed up, should never be in the position why you have to consider having 6 man rifles


I definitely agree, was just saying 2x BARs on 6 man rifles would probably be one of the most OP things this game has ever seen. Which is saying quite a bit
17 Jun 2019, 02:27 AM
#25
avatar of distrofio

Posts: 2358

jump backJump back to quoted post16 Jun 2019, 23:22 PMCODGUY


Oh watching the community balance team screw up this once cool game is more entertaining than the game itself now lol.

I said it was stupid to put Panzergrens at T1 and that they were already even before this monstrosity balance patch a B.S. OP unit with the dual schreks and sure enough that's what we're seeing just blobs of these things. What do you have as USF to counter this? Oh yeah "the best mainline infantry" Riflemen that get shredded by a basic OKW engineer unit lol.



riflemen beaten by sturmpios complaint -> L2P issues symptom

But hey, giving the best lategame unit even more powercreep sounds like a great idea! Sign me in into the coh2 #allieUPcalypse
17 Jun 2019, 03:59 AM
#26
avatar of FelixTHM

Posts: 503 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post16 Jun 2019, 23:00 PMCODGUY


Yeah because that's really a viable, reasonably priced option at 150 MP 15 fuel and then 120 munitions after retreating to your base giving up map control.



It is reasonably priced since it unlocks zooks and BARs for ALL infantry.

It would also be smarter to equip the Riflemen that have retreated from taking casualties with BARs while they're healing at base, instead of retreating your 5-man full health squads from the frontline.

The fact that we need to tell you this, though.....
17 Jun 2019, 04:56 AM
#27
avatar of Bakairu

Posts: 31

When ostruppen get 7-man squad upgrades because ostruppen should always be better than cons.
aaa
17 Jun 2019, 06:34 AM
#28
avatar of aaa

Posts: 1486

I agree patch is insane. Utter garbage. Pair with "R click patch".

Okw p4 for a faction that already has easy access to 4 mediums\heavies.

Best to just revert it
17 Jun 2019, 06:58 AM
#29
avatar of ruzara

Posts: 26

i dunno lelic..
god rifleman is currently in worse state ever.. it cant face to face with vet 5 obersoldaten with stg 44 IR head on..
rifleman definitly need buff just give m4a4 assault rifle with grenade launcher (and HEAT grenade to fight tanks) oh also upgrade wearing kevlar-dragon scale armor for 50 muni to make it more survivable
then it balanced.. IS IT HARD TO IMPLEMENTED THAT..!1!!1
ugh.. always~
ddd
17 Jun 2019, 08:41 AM
#30
avatar of ddd

Posts: 528 | Subs: 1

Removing weapon racks and giving option to upgrade rifles with 1xBAR without any sidegrades would be massive buff already. Also lowering MP cost for ambulance and grenades is a must.
17 Jun 2019, 09:15 AM
#31
avatar of Lago

Posts: 3260

jump backJump back to quoted post16 Jun 2019, 23:00 PMCODGUY
Yeah because that's really a viable, reasonably priced option at 150 MP 15 fuel and then 120 munitions after retreating to your base giving up map control.


Wait, seriously? You're not upgrading your Riflemen?

There's your problem right there.
17 Jun 2019, 09:17 AM
#32
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17875 | Subs: 8

jump backJump back to quoted post16 Jun 2019, 23:00 PMCODGUY


Yeah because that's really a viable, reasonably priced option at 150 MP 15 fuel and then 120 munitions after retreating to your base giving up map control.

Ummm, yes, weapon upgrades are viable way of scaling your infantry in late game.
That's how it works for this series for half of your life or more.
17 Jun 2019, 09:19 AM
#33
avatar of T.R. Stormjäger

Posts: 3588 | Subs: 3

I agree, make riflemen 7men so Codguy can finally hit a 3ple digit rank in 1v1s with his only faction.

PS: 9 game losing streak? Sheesh XD
17 Jun 2019, 09:50 AM
#34
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 4474

jump backJump back to quoted post17 Jun 2019, 00:41 AMRocket
hahah no they dont never have

Edit i dont want to say never because at one time they and it made sense for usf early game because of okw and axis in general would auto win if the game clock hit 40 mins as usf late game was non existent



rifle start with 0.97 received acc, so yes they should win most of the times only if u are unlucky u lose
17 Jun 2019, 13:29 PM
#35
avatar of Balanced_Gamer

Posts: 783

Playing alot as USF lately and to be fair: Rifleman don't need a sixth man. Its Ostheer and Soviets that struggle to keep pace in infantry battles with especially OKW and USF and UKF to a lesser degree.


Well said!
18 Jun 2019, 06:00 AM
#36
avatar of KiwiBirb

Posts: 789

I don’t sound like this... do I?

If I do I’m sorry and I’ll stop posting
18 Jun 2019, 06:04 AM
#37
avatar of KiwiBirb

Posts: 789



I was curious about this so I figured I't test it in cheat/mod-tools, which I'm always confused why people don't bother doing but oh well.

I did 6 comparisons of riflemen v volksgrenadiers.

2 at max range with no cover. --> These were 50/50 of who won and it was super close in both cases with the winning squad having a sliver of HP left on the last model.

2 at max range with green cover. --> These were 50/50 too, but not as close in HP -- one round riflemen won, one round volks won, and whoever won had 3 remaining models around half HP. My guess is the green cover nature of things means the fight is longer and so whoever drops a model first has a distinct and longitudinal disadvantage.

2 at close range with no cover. Rifles won, not even close.

Dunno... rifles are more expensive but if they are about equal at max range and have an advantage at close range, eh probably fine.

EDIT: Oh one thing I did notice is that if Volks wipe a rifle-squad, the hit vet 1. If rifles wipe a volks-squad, they do _not_ hit vet 1.


Did you have the Rifles walk from far to close range, or did you start them close? Just curious, and I think rifles are pretty good, especially late game!
18 Jun 2019, 16:32 PM
#38
avatar of murky depths

Posts: 607



Did you have the Rifles walk from far to close range, or did you start them close? Just curious, and I think rifles are pretty good, especially late game!


In all cases I spawned them and faced them so that they were already looking at each other, to avoid any "model has to turn around, taking a few extra shots".

Walking is a weird one too, since you may potentially expose 1 model to concentrated fire depending on the squad's formation, so they were all already in sight of each other before I switched one of the squads to 'enemy' and had them shoot it out.

I imagine in any fight the approaching squad is always at a disadvantage, cover or no cover, if only because of the moving accuracy penalty and the free few shots the defending squad gets on whichever first two models get past the threshold of max range for the defenders.

18 Jun 2019, 17:10 PM
#39
avatar of zerocoh

Posts: 930

I would rather have Rifles with consistent Vet like Volks do and not "Trash until vet 3" veterancy. because losing a squad mid-game is just impossible to replace it without pouring down a ton of resources on a single squad.
18 Jun 2019, 17:34 PM
#40
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 5279

jump backJump back to quoted post18 Jun 2019, 17:10 PMzerocoh
I would rather have Rifles with consistent Vet like Volks do and not "Trash until vet 3" veterancy. because losing a squad mid-game is just impossible to replace it without pouring down a ton of resources on a single squad.

Refrain from losing your vetted units? It hurts because it's SUPPOSED to hurt. Usf and UKF are in the unique position however to mitigate that loss slightly with double upgrades. Yes, it's expensive but if it wasn't.... Well how would that be fair?
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