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did shock troops need the buff?

did shock troops need the buff from last patch?
Option Distribution Votes
68%
26%
6%
Total votes: 62
Vote VOTE! Vote ABSTAIN
12 Mar 2019, 01:13 AM
#1
avatar of Dyingbattery22

Posts: 12

what do you guys think about shocks? because i personally think they didn't need cost reduction and mid range buff.
12 Mar 2019, 01:20 AM
#2
avatar of ShadowLinkX37
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 2240

NEED THE BUFF? Yes, they needed a buff. ARE THEY TOO STRONG? maybe.... maybe....
12 Mar 2019, 01:26 AM
#3
avatar of Vuther
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 2990 | Subs: 1

(Resists urge to add poll options I DON'T KNOW and CAN YOU REPEAT THE QUESTION)

I've got nothing else to add, I don't think I've used them enough since the buff to think something useful.
12 Mar 2019, 01:59 AM
#4
avatar of TheGentlemenTroll

Posts: 861 | Subs: 1

Did they need a buff? 100% they were complete trash before.
12 Mar 2019, 02:10 AM
#5
avatar of Flyingsmonster

Posts: 101

Agreed with others. They just weren't worth it before they were buffed. They might need a price increase though back to ~380-400mp to reflect their current performance. The thing is shocks are almost entirely in doctrines that lack call in AT, and with T1 being the soviet meta right now shocks can be reasonably countered by light vehicle play.
12 Mar 2019, 03:17 AM
#6
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 1762 | Subs: 1

id say yes. for a cqb squad thats useless outside that range in a game dominated by long range combat.... plus they were useable against ost, a factrion designed with weaknesses, but a cqb squad against a faction with infantry that is useable at range and only gets better the closer you get shocks were of no value, due to killing themselves trying to kill anything.
12 Mar 2019, 05:47 AM
#7
avatar of KiwiBirb

Posts: 21

Nerf the smoke so they aren’t fucking ninjas
12 Mar 2019, 10:17 AM
#8
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 11689 | Subs: 6

Did they need a buff? 100% they were complete trash before.

^
13 Mar 2019, 03:09 AM
#9
avatar of IncendiaryRounds:)

Posts: 686

Stormtroopers need the same mp40 dps curve as the shock ppsh. Right now the shock ppsh has better range than the stormtroopers.
13 Mar 2019, 03:27 AM
#10
avatar of miragefla
Senior Modmaker Badge

Posts: 1177 | Subs: 10

I am not sure how Stormtroopers mean anything here, but to enlighten, here is the DPS from the Attribute Editor. Cruzz's might be different, but the numbers are super drastically different that this cannot be trusted at all.

10/15/20/25/30/35

Shock Troops: 14.2/4.787/1.647/0.6225/0.1186
Stormtroopers: 18.6/7.1/2.44/0.71/0.11

Shocks are still niche, but I think they are in a decent spot.

Even vs Ostheer, Shocks had the issue with bleed as LMGs could focus them down and their CQC nature means they will be encountering those vehicles and eating lots of damage in the later stages of the game. Shocks also come with cost, population and only being able to tackle infantry at a specific range.

They have to do that specific job well given they compete with Guard doctrine who can tackles all threats to an extent without needing to close.
13 Mar 2019, 09:03 AM
#11
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 11689 | Subs: 6

Stormtroopers need the same mp40 dps curve as the shock ppsh. Right now the shock ppsh has better range than the stormtroopers.

Shocks also do not have stealth, spawning behind opponents and have lower DPS.
No, they do not need shocks DPS curve, unless you can't wait to see them nerfed afterwards.
13 Mar 2019, 09:05 AM
#12
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 4175 | Subs: 1

I am not sure how Stormtroopers mean anything here, but to enlighten, here is the DPS from the Attribute Editor. Cruzz's might be different, but the numbers are super drastically different that this cannot be trusted at all.

10/15/20/25/30/35

Shock Troops: 14.2/4.787/1.647/0.6225/0.1186
Stormtroopers: 18.6/7.1/2.44/0.71/0.11

Shocks are still niche, but I think they are in a decent spot.

I have not seen a sheet from Cruzz that includes the MP40 only the MP44s.
https://coh2db.com/stats/

The DPS of the squads according to the number provided by you are:
shock troops_ppsh-41_sub_machine_gun_mp 85.2/28.7/9.9/3.7/0.7
stormtrooper_mp40_smg_mp 74.4/28.4/9.76/2.84/0.44

and the ratio of the DPS is:
115%/101%/101%/1.32%/1.62% so the profiles are different ranging from 101% to 162%.

But the difference in performance does not lay in the DPS but in the durability and DPS loss when models drop.


Even vs Ostheer, Shocks had the issue with bleed as LMGs could focus them down and their CQC nature means they will be encountering those vehicles and eating lots of damage in the later stages of the game. Shocks also come with cost, population and only being able to tackle infantry at a specific range.

They have to do that specific job well given they compete with Guard doctrine who can tackles all threats to an extent without needing to close.

Imo that is no justification in making Shock troops OP. If guards are OP they should be nerfed and not the other way round.

According the tests made by Bizrock (which should only be used as an indication) Guards perform better the LMG Paras and 3 BARS Rangers when both units are long Range AI units with no AT contrary to Guards.
13 Mar 2019, 09:07 AM
#13
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 4175 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post13 Mar 2019, 09:03 AMKatitof

Shocks also do not have stealth, spawning behind opponents and have lower DPS.
No, they do not need shocks DPS curve, unless you can't wait to see them nerfed afterwards.

That information is incorrect the shock troops Squad has higher DPS at all ranges.
13 Mar 2019, 09:08 AM
#14
avatar of d0ggY
Senior Caster Badge

Posts: 683 | Subs: 3

jump backJump back to quoted post13 Mar 2019, 09:07 AMVipper

That information is incorrect the shock troops Squad has higher DPS at all ranges.


Katitof is allied fanboi Kappa
13 Mar 2019, 09:10 AM
#15
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 4175 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post13 Mar 2019, 09:08 AMd0ggY


Katitof is allied fanboi Kappa

I really don't mind that but I find that making false stat claims is very nonconstructive.
13 Mar 2019, 16:11 PM
#16
avatar of murky depths

Posts: 349

I think they're good but fair now (RIP grenade memes).

Expensive but useful, but can still be countered very hard by LV (hello Flamer halftrack), or even outranged. And since they can't spam nades anymore, MG42 can also counter them (assuming you pay attention to it).

Probably the first time I ever felt like shocks were "worth it" to make.
13 Mar 2019, 16:30 PM
#17
avatar of Crecer13

Posts: 1037 | Subs: 2

After the bugs, the frag and smoke grenades were brought back together. This is unjust, because they need separate grenades. You need to evaporate this bug and return the separate grenades.
13 Mar 2019, 19:41 PM
#18
avatar of miragefla
Senior Modmaker Badge

Posts: 1177 | Subs: 10

jump backJump back to quoted post13 Mar 2019, 09:05 AMVipper

Imo that is no justification in making Shock troops OP. If guards are OP they should be nerfed and not the other way round.



You keep throwing out the word without seemingly to know its connotations. How are Shocks OP in any form even now? They still don't want to fight at mid-range as it means other units can be brought up to support versus them.

They are a dedicated AI squad that needs to be positioned and cannot be A-moved like LMG units. Sure, they can 1v1 most other squads, but everything else hardcounters them its easier to keep at range than it is for them to close distance, even with smoke.
13 Mar 2019, 20:11 PM
#19
avatar of ShadowLinkX37
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 2240



You keep throwing out the word without seemingly to know its connotations. How are Shocks OP in any form even now? They still don't want to fight at mid-range as it means other units can be brought up to support versus them.

They are a dedicated AI squad that needs to be positioned and cannot be A-moved like LMG units. Sure, they can 1v1 most other squads, but everything else hardcounters them its easier to keep at range than it is for them to close distance, even with smoke.


I'd say that makes them map dependant than blatantly OP. JLI might be OP, but on south KFS around all the hedges you can close in on them easily. Same is true for shocks, A-move LMG grens/obers don't matter in CQC areas
13 Mar 2019, 20:35 PM
#20
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 1942



I'd say that makes them map dependant than blatantly OP. JLI might be OP, but on south KFS around all the hedges you can close in on them easily. Same is true for shocks, A-move LMG grens/obers don't matter in CQC areas
jli are still op close range too as the 75%crit is too strong
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