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Overwatch flare ability

18 Feb 2019, 19:52 PM
#21
avatar of Esxile

Posts: 2606 | Subs: 1

add a longer CD for the flares ?


I don't know how the mechanism is design.
18 Feb 2019, 20:51 PM
#22
avatar of Unknown Legend
Donator 11

Posts: 415 | Subs: 1

Overwatch flare is only broken for team games where it applies to all ally points. In 1v1 it is fine. Soviet radio intercept provides free recon without set-up or a cost and has been accepted in multiple commanders since day 1.

Unlike radio intercept, the overwatch flare is a dead giveaway to your commander selection and the opponent knows it is in use. You can counter it with sweepers or use it for counterplay using indirect fire units.
18 Feb 2019, 20:58 PM
#23
avatar of Sander93

Posts: 1920 | Subs: 3

Overwatch flare is only broken for team games where it applies to all ally points-.


Only points that were captured by the player with the Overwatch doctrine are rigged with the flares. Points capped by Allies are not.
18 Feb 2019, 21:34 PM
#24
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 13678 | Subs: 7

Did you all forget the FREE Recon Run the brits had for 2 years?

And where is that recon now?
But np, I like the way you imply these flares should have cost ASAP.
23 Feb 2019, 19:23 PM
#25
avatar of LoopDloop

Posts: 2679

jump backJump back to quoted post18 Feb 2019, 21:34 PMKatitof

And where is that recon now?
But np, I like the way you imply these flares should have cost ASAP.

Lel.

And at least you had to neuter a UC (back when UC could do that opieop) and pay some muni for the command vehicle.
23 Feb 2019, 23:47 PM
#26
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 6253 | Subs: 1

Overwatch flare is only broken for team games where it applies to all ally points. In 1v1 it is fine. Soviet radio intercept provides free recon without set-up or a cost and has been accepted in multiple commanders since day 1.

Unlike radio intercept, the overwatch flare is a dead giveaway to your commander selection and the opponent knows it is in use. You can counter it with sweepers or use it for counterplay using indirect fire units.


TBH, that's the first thing i thought to compare with on the concept of "free" recon. Radio intercept gives you audio cues and only works on 1v1 mostly as in other modes it's actually contraproducent to the player (you miss important normal audio cues due to sheer volume of them appearing).
You know what units are arriving. You don't know where and when. But the most important aspect of OW ability is the vision it provides as it helps other units fight as well. We all know the penalties of say firing into FoG.

Giving it the same behaviour as booby traps and a symbolic small cost, will lower the current powerhouse which is Overwatch as a commander.
24 Feb 2019, 00:04 AM
#27
avatar of LoopDloop

Posts: 2679



TBH, that's the first thing i thought to compare with on the concept of "free" recon. Radio intercept gives you audio cues and only works on 1v1 mostly as in other modes it's actually contraproducent to the player (you miss important normal audio cues due to sheer volume of them appearing).
You know what units are arriving. You don't know where and when. But the most important aspect of OW ability is the vision it provides as it helps other units fight as well. We all know the penalties of say firing into FoG.

Giving it the same behaviour as booby traps and a symbolic small cost, will lower the current powerhouse which is Overwatch as a commander.

I like that solution. Just having to set the things would at least make it feel more "fair" I guess.

It's also kind of annoying that it reveals camo'd units because it it puts them "in combat" when they try to cap points too.
24 Feb 2019, 04:40 AM
#28
avatar of addvaluejack

Posts: 236


I like that solution. Just having to set the things would at least make it feel more "fair" I guess.

It's also kind of annoying that it reveals camo'd units because it it puts them "in combat" when they try to cap points too.


I believe the reason is the flare could kill one model several patches ago.
25 Feb 2019, 00:57 AM
#29
avatar of LoopDloop

Posts: 2679



I believe the reason is the flare could kill one model several patches ago.

Wait really? That's... weird.

Be nice if it was removed though IMO, since flares aren't really supposed to reveal camo'd units anyway (okw spec ops flares and brit arty commander flares don't IIRC).
25 Feb 2019, 06:59 AM
#30
avatar of Porygon

Posts: 2609

vCOH Wehrmarct Defensive doctrine Advance warning ability since 2006 with a fancy firework.

What the hell are you guys complaining?
25 Feb 2019, 13:24 PM
#31
avatar of SeductiveCardbordBox

Posts: 511 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post25 Feb 2019, 06:59 AMPorygon
vCOH Wehrmarct Defensive doctrine Advance warning ability since 2006 with a fancy firework.

What the hell are you guys complaining?


Hey Porygon. You may not have noticed, but this is the CoH2 forum, where we discuss CoH2, not the original CoH and its legacy balance issues people have just accepted.

They may be part of the same series, but they are absolutely not comprable besides that.
26 Feb 2019, 00:46 AM
#32
avatar of Porygon

Posts: 2609



Hey Porygon. You may not have noticed, but this is the CoH2 forum, where we discuss CoH2, not the original CoH and its legacy balance issues people have just accepted.

They may be part of the same series, but they are absolutely not comparable besides that.


And it is just literally giving more sight around captured points, what's wrong with it?
How come it was a balance issues?
Don't you think when they design this ability, they did it from zero without considering recycle the vCOH ideas? If so, where did the Soviet propaganda shell come from? Where did the Goliath come from? Where did the Officer arty come from?

This forum was built up around the closed beta of COH2 by literally vCOH veterans and their fans.
26 Feb 2019, 01:29 AM
#33
avatar of SeductiveCardbordBox

Posts: 511 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post26 Feb 2019, 00:46 AMPorygon
And it is just literally giving more sight around captured points, what's wrong with it?
How come it was a balance issues?
Don't you think when they design this ability, they did it from zero without considering recycle the vCOH ideas? If so, where did the Soviet propaganda shell come from? Where did the Goliath come from? Where did the Officer arty come from?

This forum was built up around the closed beta of COH2 by literally vCOH veterans and their fans.


This was all relevent in 2013. When the game released. Six years ago.

Just because something similar existed in vCoH, a very different game, does not mean it has the same sort of impact and prevalence now.

It provides a large amount of LoS, way outside of just the cap circle, for free with zero micro or fuel investment. That LoS is a map wide boon that gives you near constant reconnisance on where your enemy's troops are. That's huge. Most nations have to pay every time for some periodic flares. Soviets and USF and even OKW fusilliers have to pay 40 muni a pop or more for every time they want to send one up and get some recon, be that for indirect spotting or just general planning of attacks.

Movement, positioning and unit facing are so much more impactful in CoH2 than vCoH that, no, free flares absolutely do not have a place. And neither does the IR half track.

Even the generally hamstringed Brits have to pay fuel and lock in a late game tech just to be able to see the point itself, never mind the area around it.

26 Feb 2019, 01:34 AM
#34
avatar of Porygon

Posts: 2609



Movement, positioning and unit facing are so much more impactful in CoH2 than vCoH that



I think I can stop reading your comments after this, period.
26 Feb 2019, 01:40 AM
#35
avatar of SeductiveCardbordBox

Posts: 511 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post26 Feb 2019, 01:34 AMPorygon


I think I can stop reading your comments after this, period.


Have you stopped to play any vCoH games recently? Constantly moving big blocks of infantry around out of cover, bought veterancy, huge cones on all the weapon teams? Faster moving infantry relative to their model size? Absolutely millions of grenades blowing all the green cover apart by the ten minute mark? Generally less punishing squad wipes? Moving flamethrower firing?
26 Feb 2019, 02:06 AM
#36
avatar of Porygon

Posts: 2609



Have you stopped to play any vCoH games recently? Constantly moving big blocks of infantry around out of cover, bought veterancy, huge cones on all the weapon teams? Faster moving infantry relative to their model size? Absolutely millions of grenades blowing all the green cover apart by the ten minute mark? Generally less punishing squad wipes? Moving flamethrower firing?


I picked it up last week and get US Wehr PE back to top 80 1v1, well I am not crazy good like those guys keep playing like 6000-7000 thousands games with > 90% win rate, but constantly moving big blocks of infantry around out of cover? You are asking to lose.

Oh wait just checked you play 4v4. Alright, that's why.
26 Feb 2019, 08:14 AM
#37
avatar of Esxile

Posts: 2606 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post26 Feb 2019, 02:06 AMPorygon


I picked it up last week and get US Wehr PE back to top 80 1v1, well I am not crazy good like those guys keep playing like 6000-7000 thousands games with > 90% win rate, but constantly moving big blocks of infantry around out of cover? You are asking to lose.

Oh wait just checked you play 4v4. Alright, that's why.


Who's interested in your vcoh stat? hum, nobody.



TBH, that's the first thing i thought to compare with on the concept of "free" recon. Radio intercept gives you audio cues and only works on 1v1 mostly as in other modes it's actually contraproducent to the player (you miss important normal audio cues due to sheer volume of them appearing).
You know what units are arriving. You don't know where and when. But the most important aspect of OW ability is the vision it provides as it helps other units fight as well. We all know the penalties of say firing into FoG.

Giving it the same behaviour as booby traps and a symbolic small cost, will lower the current powerhouse which is Overwatch as a commander.


I had a game yesterday vs Gadaffi, he is a nice person but hell he likes abusing good stuff. Overwatch + spam ISG on a small 1vs1 map, every time I was capping a point somewhere on the map I had his 3 ISG bombarding me.
This + two JLI to provide more vision + raketen set a strategic point he could see half of the map anytime.
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