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Cromwell versus Sherman

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Lago
28 Jan 2019, 13:23 PM
#1
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Why do the Cromwell and the Sherman cost the same?
  • Same health.
  • Same armour.
  • Same hull/coaxial MG damage.
  • Similar penetration (the Cromwell has +5 pen far and -5 pen close relative to the Sherman)
  • Similar target size. (Cromwell 22, Sherman 23)
  • Smoke ability with a similar response time.
  • Same accuracy and reload on the main gun.

A Cromwell has pretty much the same performance as a Sherman with AP loaded and no pintle upgrade.


However, the Sherman gets:
  • HE toggle to double the blast radius on its main gun.
  • .50 cal pintle mount to double the damage output of its MGs.
  • Better scatter (the main gun is more accurate vs infantry).


And the Cromwell gets:
  • Sight upgrade.
  • About 10% faster.


Do those two really balance out? The Cromwell just seems like a worse tank for the same price.

Does the Cromwell have a hidden strength I've missed or underappreciated, or is it just flat out worse than the Sherman?
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Vipper
28 Jan 2019, 13:31 PM
#2
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Cromwell is also faster, comes with less tech cost (if I remember correctly) and there are higher tier tanks available to UKF.

Sherman is the top tier tank USF get and it is actually very cost efficient.

:)
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BeastHunter
28 Jan 2019, 13:56 PM
#3
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You could upgrade it with the Emergency Warspeed from Hammertech but beside that it is mostly the slightly earlier time it can be fielded and the different support for the cromwell that speaks for it.

The Sherman has also better moving accuracy and self repair and at vet1 the amazing radionet.
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SuperHansFan
28 Jan 2019, 14:12 PM
#4
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You forgot crew self repair for the Sherman, that and HE shells carry the tank allowing for good wipe potential. Cromwell has good vet but could use some extra AI out the gate and a fuel increase. This would time it arriving a bit later.

I think the cost reduction after the nerfs were worth trying, but with other nerfs to British armour their tank roster apart from the Churchill varients is very anaemic. As such I don't think the Cromwell really suits it's current place.

I would actually be in favour of USF style redesign with British late tier tech. Possibly make the Hammer/anvil choice one that can be picked earlier on, but lock Churchill and a redesigned comet in wehr style tier 4. Possibly experiment with changing the anvil and hammer abilities too because Anvil gets picked 95% of the time. (Oh and a mobile mortar and removal of emplaments please)

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Stug life
28 Jan 2019, 14:59 PM
#5
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cause brits have actual late game, USF can only try to cheese with the pop cap
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ZombiFrancis
28 Jan 2019, 15:35 PM
#6
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It's probably worth mentioning that the Sherman HE rounds sacrifice armor penetration for that AoE.
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Lago
28 Jan 2019, 15:38 PM
#7
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jump backJump back to quoted post28 Jan 2019, 15:35 PMZombiFrancis
It's probably worth mentioning that the Sherman HE rounds sacrifice armor penetration for that AoE.


They sacrifice it almost entirely: it drops to 25. You turn that on, your Sherman is an AI tank only.

However, that HE toggle is a strict boost: the AP ammo has the same AI performance as the Cromwell and Comet. Maybe even slightly better given the superior scatter.
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LoopDloop
28 Jan 2019, 16:01 PM
#8
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But muh commander upgrade.

IMO all Cromwell needs is slightly better scatter to make it a bit more consistent. AoE isn’t terrible when it actually hits something but it oftentimes feels very inconsistent and misses completely a lot. It’s also one of the only mediums without a pintle upgrade (the other being the t34 but it’s hull and coax mgs are really good for whatever reason).

The one other thing to note is that Cromwells aren’t the end of the line for Brit armor though. They do have higher tier options like the comet and Churchill and usf doesn’t do theoretically Sherman deserves to be slightly better for the same price. The one caveat to that is that the comet is pretty underwhelming now and I’d much rather build centaur + firefly a lot of the time.
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IncendiaryRounds:)
28 Jan 2019, 16:25 PM
#9
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And the toggle has a 6 second delay.
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ShadowLinkX37
28 Jan 2019, 17:03 PM
#10
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Unsure if you're saying Sherman too good or cromwell not good enough. The sherman for its price is hands down the best stock medium in the game. It could easily cost 120F. Pretty sure it's just a result of #USFNEVEROP
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Outsider_Sidaroth
28 Jan 2019, 18:37 PM
#11
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jump backJump back to quoted post28 Jan 2019, 17:03 PMShadowLinkX37
Unsure if you're saying Sherman too good or cromwell not good enough. The sherman for its price is hands down the best stock medium in the game. It could easily cost 120F. Pretty sure it's just a result of #USFNEVEROP


Sherman is good, but it has a lot of weight to carry, since the Jackson and Scott are specialized units while the Sherman is your only medium tank. Not counting doctrines, of course, even their price tags are about perfectly balanced against each other.

I'd say the OKW PZ4 is better on virtue of it's rngesilience. Sometimes it refuses to die.
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thedarkarmadillo
28 Jan 2019, 19:32 PM
#12
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jump backJump back to quoted post28 Jan 2019, 15:38 PMLago


They sacrifice it almost entirely: it drops to 25. You turn that on, your Sherman is an AI tank only.

However, that HE toggle is a strict boost: the AP ammo has the same AI performance as the Cromwell and Comet. Maybe even slightly better given the superior scatter.


Yea I think the AP was actually contrast to the HE it would be a better "balanced" tank. The HE is great, and a huge bonus if you know there is no armour in the area, but the AP is plenty acceptable against infantry as well, and has higher than average pen iirc to boot.
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