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russian armor

I don't know what to do with Stuart

24 Dec 2018, 19:12 PM
#21
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17875 | Subs: 8

It has one additional advantage against the other vehicles, besides being a generalist
And that is: Surviving two AT shots instead of dying with the second one, so its more of a long-termer, while having really tiny shock value

Oh, you mean like literally any other light tank and light TD arriving at that time?
24 Dec 2018, 21:49 PM
#22
avatar of miragefla
Developer Relic Badge

Posts: 1304 | Subs: 13

Only buffs the tank might need would be its utility abilities, mainly price. Anything else would make it far too good. There was a reason the Stuart got an AI nerf two years ago since it would OHK infantry that it hit directly while also dealing with every vehicle that isn't the specialist Puma.

With a price change to abilities, it'd bel very useful to keep around to lockdown incoming tanks/armor as the Stuart still locks out the weapon's, of enemy vehicles even on deflection.
24 Dec 2018, 22:02 PM
#23
avatar of mortiferum

Posts: 571

jump backJump back to quoted post24 Dec 2018, 19:12 PMKatitof

Oh, you mean like literally any other light tank and light TD arriving at that time?


I reckon he meant for the US.

M20, Greyhound, and Flak track survives 2 hits only.
24 Dec 2018, 22:30 PM
#24
avatar of Outsider_Sidaroth

Posts: 1323 | Subs: 1

The Stuart just got nerfed hard, it's okay at helping deal with dangerous AI light vehicles, and not much else.
Try the M20 if you need AI, it's very good now.



I reckon he meant for the US.

M20, Greyhound, and Flak track survives 2 hits only.


Greyhound has 400, it got buffed by getting the skirts by default, good AI vehicle that can pester lights with it's .50 caliber mount.
25 Dec 2018, 05:28 AM
#25
avatar of Van Der Bolt

Posts: 91

I think reducing fuel price will help to fix the issue - for about 60 fuel. Or maybe try a fuel price increase to 80, but increasing AI potency?
25 Dec 2018, 10:12 AM
#26
avatar of Grumpy

Posts: 1947



I reckon he meant for the US.

M20, Greyhound, and Flak track survives 2 hits only.


Pretty sure M20 has something like 240 health and Flak Track has 320 so they don't survive 2 hits unless you're counting the hit from a snare.

The Stuart used to be really good but I think that a lot of the best players got annoyed with the double-Stuart into Pershing. The Stuart used to be something that you would always get, now it's more situational. I haven't played much since the last patch but think that with the change in tiers it will be used even less in larger games and maybe about the same in 1's.
25 Dec 2018, 10:33 AM
#27
avatar of Onimusha

Posts: 149

Imho stuart is in a decent spot, i often use it paired with an early m20, it's a great snowball without puma in large maps. Vet is fast enough to keep him useful. AI capability from static position is pretty good too, the only thing that it could need maybe is better accuracy on the move for AI. In current state chasing squads is useless.
25 Dec 2018, 10:50 AM
#28
avatar of SkysTheLimit

Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1

The stuart is in an entirely different tier now (and comes 10 fuel earlier), and that kind of change can do wonders for a units spot in the meta. At the least, I think more time is needed to tell whether the stuart actually needs a change or not.


Not to be a stickler but isn't it only 5 fuel earlier? Used to be one-time 60, now it's 35+20 right? I

I will say it's really nice having it with MGs. The flak HT and stuart were previously redundant with the. 50 and AT gun respectively. Which I think is what you're getting at about the new tech opening the Stuart up as more of an option
25 Dec 2018, 10:53 AM
#29
avatar of Esxile

Posts: 3597 | Subs: 1



So, how would u suggest to use it?


Stuart is not a shock unit so don't use it that way. As Jar mentioned it, it does the job to cover your flanks from lone capping squad so that's one task you can assign him. Otherwise it needs combined arms to perform decently, the sight range increase at vet1 and gives quite a boost for a faction lacking sight if you hadn't selected a dedicated doctrine with sight bonus, M20 + Stuart combo can also be quite a thing early game to roam the battlefield.

The main function of the stuart is to offer support to your squads, you say zooks are better to keep lvs at bay but I'll answer that zook + stuart can seal the deal vs any lvs.

Following that logic the stuart is not difficult to hit vet2 or vet3 when your first medium hit the field, it is then up to you to swap crews...

I have to recognized that unlike I thought at the beginning I'm mostly using capt that lt since the patch went live but that's because it feet better my playstyle than being better than T1.
25 Dec 2018, 12:44 PM
#30
avatar of Lago

Posts: 3260

The Stuart as is feels like it has the anti-infantry performance of the AEC and the anti-armor performance of the T-70. It's meant to be a debuffer to support Shermans, but its abilities just aren't up to that at the moment.

Making its abilities not share a cooldown might help. That, or Flanking Speed/Ninja Smoke so it can actually pull off its snare without dying.
25 Dec 2018, 13:51 PM
#31
avatar of FelixTHM

Posts: 503 | Subs: 1



Not to be a stickler but isn't it only 5 fuel earlier? Used to be one-time 60, now it's 35+20 right? I

I will say it's really nice having it with MGs. The flak HT and stuart were previously redundant with the. 50 and AT gun respectively. Which I think is what you're getting at about the new tech opening the Stuart up as more of an option


Coming in with the LT (better squad than Cpt) and the HMG make it easier to defend vs or to apply pressure on the enemy. It used to be the case that going Cpt made you lose so much field presence that you couldn't even get the Stuart out in a reasonable time-frame.

Also, USF starts with +5 fuel compared to last patch, so the difference adds up to quite a fair amount. Stuart comes at the perfect time to counter Luchs play right now, compared to the previous window of opportunity AND the inferiority of the previous Cpt-tier infantry presence.
25 Dec 2018, 15:47 PM
#32
avatar of LeOverlord

Posts: 310

Why not add a .50 cal upgrade (similar to Sherman) so that it can at least fight off infantry? Or even better, improve ROF and/or damage. Or give it the canister shot. There are many alternatives out there.
25 Dec 2018, 18:22 PM
#33
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 5279

Why not add a .50 cal upgrade (similar to Sherman) so that it can at least fight off infantry? Or even better, improve ROF and/or damage. Or give it the canister shot. There are many alternatives out there.

ROF and damage make it better against everything not just infantry. We had a Stuart that could insta gib infantry. It was bad.

If you want to increase its AI performance you need to simply take a page from the T34 and increase MG damage slightly. All tanks except specialists should mostly rely on mgs for AI because it's reliable and not bursty. There is time to respond and punishment for those that do not AND it's effected by cover (instead of strengthened by cover clumping) so it adds a tactical elemt of... Taking cover.
Getting caught in the open by a tank should be devistating not a dice roll.
25 Dec 2018, 18:32 PM
#34
avatar of CODGUY

Posts: 884

The Stuart is a soild and powerful light vehicle, maybe the most powerful light vehicle in the game. It has to be supported as its anti-infantry capabilities are limited. With the old tech tree it was difficult to support but now it is available with the. 50 cal HMG and the M20 scout car so it has some good supporting units. It can soak up a lot of damage for a light vehicle so its decent for taking on MGs, bunkers, 20mm flak cannonns in addition to other light vehicles like the Luchs or 222. But, being a light vehicle itself, it is easily fausted and killed by dedicated AT weapons and preforms pretty poorly against Pumas.
25 Dec 2018, 19:11 PM
#35
avatar of LoopDloop

Posts: 3053

Ive actually believed the stuart is disliked because of how much of a generalist it is.

Its moderate anti infantry (it will force off capping units; yes, this does take a fair while). Its moderate anti tank that keeps anything less than a puma from doing what it wants to do. Its moderate utility, with its engine and stun shot. With veterancy, its scouting as well.

The thing is, in my opinion, its 70 fuel price tag is a result of its performance in ALL of these areas, and getting value out of this unit means utilizing it in every single one of these roles. While I definitely wouldnt say its in the best spot power wise, it helps if you dont think about whichever light vehicle you would rather have in the given situation, because the stuart will never be the preferred vehicle in a given role.

Yeah I find that it’s passable at doing pretty much everything and excels at nothing particularly, which IMO still makes it worth building. Just the ability to push off capping squads in the lategame is honestly pretty nice, especially considering that it can even get away pretty easily if tanks come after it. Stun shot and engine shot are also pretty useful sometimes in the lategame even against real tanks.

It does seem a lot more consistent at hitting shots on the move than a lot of other light vehicles though, especially the AEC, and I really find myself appreciating that as a longtime AEC user.
25 Dec 2018, 19:23 PM
#36
avatar of adamírcz

Posts: 955


ROF and damage make it better against everything not just infantry. We had a Stuart that could insta gib infantry. It was bad.

If you want to increase its AI performance you need to simply take a page from the T34 and increase MG damage slightly. All tanks except specialists should mostly rely on mgs for AI because it's reliable and not bursty. There is time to respond and punishment for those that do not AND it's effected by cover (instead of strengthened by cover clumping) so it adds a tactical elemt of... Taking cover.
Getting caught in the open by a tank should be devistating not a dice roll.

Damn, good point with those MGs vs Main gun



BTW Id still rather see buffs in the utility and survivalability departments
25 Dec 2018, 19:39 PM
#37
avatar of LoopDloop

Posts: 3053


Damn, good point with those MGs vs Main gun



BTW Id still rather see buffs in the utility and survivalability departments

IMO its utility and survivability are pretty damn good as they are, and aren’t what are really weighing the Stuart down at all. Its abilities are solid and stun shot especially comes in clutch a lot of times, and it’s fairly maneuverable and has decent armor for a light vehicle, much better in both departments than the AEC for sure anyway.

It’s also worth noting that it’s one of the only (if not the only) light vehicle with 2 mgs (hull and coax). I have no idea how much damage they do but logic would say that 2 is better than one right? Personally, I think the best solution would be either to buff those mgs a little more or to make the main gun able to more consistently hit single infantry models but more often wound them instead of killing them, I guess by decreasing scatter and changing AoE profile to be slightly wider but less damaging/more damage falloff (but not changing base damage at all). That way it’s dps vs tanks and vehicle remains unchanged in both scenarios.
25 Dec 2018, 20:29 PM
#38
avatar of Syraw

Posts: 104

and also, surprisingly, the stuart is a good counter to flakpanzer rush.
25 Dec 2018, 22:06 PM
#39
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 5279

jump backJump back to quoted post25 Dec 2018, 20:29 PMSyraw
and also, surprisingly, the stuart is a good counter to flakpanzer rush.

Now that is surprising... Ost wind should be a counter for light tanks not the other way around...
25 Dec 2018, 22:14 PM
#40
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17875 | Subs: 8

jump backJump back to quoted post25 Dec 2018, 20:29 PMSyraw
and also, surprisingly, the stuart is a good counter to flakpanzer rush.

Pre nerf stuart could.
Post nerf stuart doesn't beat anything even remotely as expensive as itself.
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