Is there any real difference between more accuracy and less scatter?
Yes there is, accuracy increases the chance to score a "natural" hit, scatter decides how far the projectile will land if it misses.
King Tiger - Is it worth buying?
3 Dec 2018, 11:50 AM
#61
Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1
Yes there is, accuracy increases the chance to score a "natural" hit, scatter decides how far the projectile will land if it misses.
3 Dec 2018, 12:33 PM
#62
Posts: 3166 | Subs: 6
375 ----> 400 armour
This.
That barely changes anything...
Penetration chance for 375 armor at max range:
Firefly 56%
SU-85 59% (76% with vet)
Jackson 59% (67% with AP)
Penetration chance for 400 armor at max range:
Firefly 52%
SU-85 55% (72% with vet)
Jackson 55% (63% with AP)
3 Dec 2018, 13:03 PM
#63
Posts: 32
What's the formula for pen versus armour?
3 Dec 2018, 13:07 PM
#64
Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1
What's the formula for pen versus armour?
weapon penetration/armor of vehicle
for more you can look here, (hope everything is correct and simple to understand):
https://community.companyofheroes.com/discussion/231279/a-guide-to-d-p-s-basics
3 Dec 2018, 13:49 PM
#65
Posts: 2243
more armor deosnt help vs the high pene value from allies TDs. it need a "oh shit" button like church/ doc smoker ost has .
3 Dec 2018, 14:15 PM
#66
Posts: 3260
That wouldn't help it much: once you pass a certain skill level people just Attack Ground through the smoke. The KT's too big and slow to reliably dodge those manual scatter shots.
3 Dec 2018, 14:17 PM
#67
Posts: 2243
That wouldn't help it much: once you pass a certain skill level people just Attack Ground through the smoke. The KT's too big and slow to reliably dodge those manual scatter shots.
maybe..but it would help 90% of the playerbase...and even the last 10% will benefit from it in some cases...
3 Dec 2018, 14:56 PM
#68
Posts: 3260
maybe..but it would help 90% of the playerbase...and even the last 10% will benefit from it in some cases...
It's doubling down on the KT's strength: it's already got so much health that it can tank several shots from tank destroyers and then roll behind an AT wall to repair. That's why it's popular in team games despite the massed enemy tank destroyers: it's difficult to destroy in a mode where units wipe in seconds.
What it needs is some utility or a consistent gun.
3 Dec 2018, 15:03 PM
#69
Posts: 911
Is there any real difference between more accuracy and less scatter?
Yes, accuracy only affects tanks
Imagine my playercard is here
3 Dec 2018, 15:05 PM
#70
Posts: 19
Personally, it depends on the map and the situation, 1v1 is something I aim to have, while 2v2 is more situational to my teammate's plan of attack.
The way I use the KT is rather unorthodox I think, using infantry blobs and a Panzer IV (or Panther if lucky enough to field) to spearhead a push while the KT does hit-n-run or flanking maneuvers and surprising my opponent. It actually has a moderate rate of success to, some players just don't hear it coming as they are focusing on the main push and it literally forces them to mass-rout their infantry while tanks either smoke screen or in the case of T34s, ram the KT to disable its engine.
But hey, that's just my luck with the KT I guess. *shrug*
The way I use the KT is rather unorthodox I think, using infantry blobs and a Panzer IV (or Panther if lucky enough to field) to spearhead a push while the KT does hit-n-run or flanking maneuvers and surprising my opponent. It actually has a moderate rate of success to, some players just don't hear it coming as they are focusing on the main push and it literally forces them to mass-rout their infantry while tanks either smoke screen or in the case of T34s, ram the KT to disable its engine.
But hey, that's just my luck with the KT I guess. *shrug*
3 Dec 2018, 15:08 PM
#71
Posts: 911
Is there any real difference between more accuracy and less scatter?
Yes, accuracy only affects shooting at tanks
Imagine my playercard is here
3 Dec 2018, 23:00 PM
#72
Posts: 4474
more rotaion and acceleration
katitof-2018
Katitof-2018
Katitof-2018
3 Dec 2018, 23:19 PM
#73
1 Posts: 2307 | Subs: 4
There are situations where the KT is less trash, but in those situations 2x p4 would still be better 
Tobis "Complete Throw"
Someone asked what my avatar was from... I really don't know.
Defeated Paula and knocked him out of 2v2 Anniversary Cup
Someone asked what my avatar was from... I really don't know.
Defeated Paula and knocked him out of 2v2 Anniversary Cup
4 Dec 2018, 06:53 AM
#74
Posts: 2243
It's doubling down on the KT's strength: it's already got so much health that it can tank several shots from tank destroyers and then roll behind an AT wall to repair. That's why it's popular in team games despite the massed enemy tank destroyers: it's difficult to destroy in a mode where units wipe in seconds.
What it needs is some utility or a consistent gun.
umm..aaaannnd why have the church EXACTLY THIS smoke to run away..while have even nearly the similary surviving stats like a kt?
4 Dec 2018, 09:02 AM
#75
Posts: 373
There are situations where the KT is less trash, but in those situations 2x p4 would still be better
100% true. Also 2pzIV is cheaper as you only need 2 halftracks set up.
4 Dec 2018, 09:27 AM
#76
Posts: 17889 | Subs: 8
umm..aaaannnd why have the church EXACTLY THIS smoke to run away..while have even nearly the similary surviving stats like a kt?
It doesn't.
That smoke is supposed to cover infantry following church.
You have that in the very description of the ability.
It even gave damage reduction when you used it to SPEARHEAD with it, not sure if it still does, not keeping up with brit nerfs, that horse is so beat dead you can't even make a stew out of remains.
And if Church has similar durability to KT, then I suppose T34/76 has similar durability to OKW P4 eh? Lets ignore MASSIVE armor difference and pretend they are similar.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
4 Dec 2018, 09:39 AM
#77
Posts: 2243
It doesn't.
That smoke is supposed to cover infantry following church.
You have that in the very description of the ability.
It even gave damage reduction when you used it to SPEARHEAD with it, not sure if it still does, not keeping up with brit nerfs, that horse is so beat dead you can't even make a stew out of remains.
And if Church has similar durability to KT, then I suppose T34/76 has similar durability to OKW P4 eh? Lets ignore MASSIVE armor difference and pretend they are similar.
U dont understand the differences, right? Axis faction has a only low pene TDs nondoc...which struggle hard which high armor. Allie nondoc tds have such high pene values..they easily pene even the KT whith high chances on far range.
Now u come with panther, right? to bad it has not 60 range and bad accurracy on the move. So it must come near an will miss often...oh..u wanna stand still? than say hello to your 40% life panther after the tds/ paks see u. u will support with rakten? to bad that they have low range and die like flys...
4 Dec 2018, 10:55 AM
#78
Posts: 3260
umm..aaaannnd why have the church EXACTLY THIS smoke to run away..while have even nearly the similary surviving stats like a kt?
The idea of it was it'd drive forwards into enemy lines and infantry would run up the smoke to avoid HMGs. Nobody uses it like that, but that's why it's there.
You could give the KT smoke, and it would make it slightly more survivable. But that's not the buff it needs. It needs to be impactful rather than being even more of an unreliable veterancy farm for enemy TDs.
Axis faction has a only low pene TDs nondoc
jagdpanzer says 'why won't you love me'
That thing costs and functions the same as an SU-85. If it doesn't have similar penetration already, it probably should.
4 Dec 2018, 11:02 AM
#79
Posts: 17889 | Subs: 8
U dont understand the differences, right? Axis faction has a only low pene TDs nondoc...which struggle hard which high armor. Allie nondoc tds have such high pene values..they easily pene even the KT whith high chances on far range.
Now u come with panther, right? to bad it has not 60 range and bad accurracy on the move. So it must come near an will miss often...oh..u wanna stand still? than say hello to your 40% life panther after the tds/ paks see u. u will support with rakten? to bad that they have low range and die like flys...
Why are you complaining about range of panther? And ALL TDs have bad accuracy on the move, in fact turretless ones have even worse, so that isn't argument at all.
So yes, Panther IS the answer, similar rate of fire and almost twice the penetration.
You being in denial about it doesn't change that fact.
Tanks have 40 range, you don't need 60 yourself, especially if you have TD unit that is supposed to slug it out.
Your very own horrible micro and inability to keep panther at range is of no relevance here.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
4 Dec 2018, 11:03 AM
#80
Posts: 3166 | Subs: 6
jagdpanzer says 'why won't you love me'
That thing costs and functions the same as an SU-85. If it doesn't have similar penetration already, it probably should.
They are not even close.
SU-85 has 240/230/220 (312/299/286 with vet).
JP4 has 200/185/170.
I get the idea, since there is the Panther for high armor targets and because the JP4 trades penetration for ROF (down to 2,96 reload on vet5 vs 4.32 for SU-85 vet3), camo and health (800HP on vet2 means it will win versus other TDs). And the JP4 generally faces lower armor targets. It is a bit unfair though that the Allies have TDs that counter everything while the Axis need to transition from medium counters (Stug/JP4) into Panthers to counter heavy armor.
If you want overkill, use Elite Armor's HEAT shells that bump the JP4's shells up to 260/241/221 pen and 208 damage.
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