Since there has been allot of talk about Penals (and V.G) I created a small mod (that needs some work) that reverse most of the changes to Penals and remove the ST44 from V.grenadier. it can be found here
https://www.coh2.org/topic/84195/the-penal-v-grenadier
Soviets are OP
24 Nov 2018, 15:29 PM
#81
Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1
24 Nov 2018, 20:30 PM
#82
Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m0Zhpc3BaKs#t=33m10s
This video shows it quite well.¯
I don't think showing the aftermath of a game been "thrown" by a single player on 2v2, shows why Soviets are OP.
The game was over 10 mins before, when violet player loses his Brummbear, proceeds to build a PW and then loses it immediately afterwards. Blobbing grens with a command PIV won't do much agains an ISU with pak wall and later a KV2, even if you back it up with an Elephant.
My controls weren't working
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
25 Nov 2018, 00:53 AM
#83
Posts: 5279
The thing I seem to notice a lot is that you just seem to want abilites that actually work (which is rare with soviets) to be nerfed or removed, why? because they work as intended...
Barrage arty? SOOOOO OP please nerf! How dare soviet counter by bunker spam and instapin mg42.
Did you guys stop a moment to think that may be there is a glimpse of balance here and there and said abilities although you deem they are op do actually serve a purpose?
Here, is this serious? The one thing that's bad with maxims is the suppressive rate.
i never said the barages were op. i said they are a perfect example of an ability that should be a vet ability but isnt. i said the barrages make sense as vet abilities and used them as an example of the soviet vet being out of whack. the zis would perform its intended role 100% as well as it does now if the barrage was vet YET the maxims doesnt fill its role of an MG without vet. (yes, i was saying the maxim was shit. you quoted me saying it was shit. i AGREE it is shit. IT IS SHIT. with its vet ability its not quite as much shit. reading comprehension.)
and the isu bit was another example of a unit that is multirole off the hop and could be made single purpose primarily and multi-role with vet
you seem to be reading into my post trying to find a reason to bitch. read the words i wrote, not the ones you are trying to attribute to me please
#stalinwept
26 Nov 2018, 14:03 PM
#84
Posts: 3166 | Subs: 6
The AC tourney stats seem to comfirm Soviets are overperforming slightly, but consistently.
I think it would be interesting to test Soviet team weapons going down to 5 men. This still gives them a faction trait survivability increase in comparison to all other factions, while becoming a bit easier to counter for Axis. Especially late game as the 6 men crew gives them a huge advantage. It would also allow the Maxim to be buffed a bit.
Perhaps with or instead some minor nerfs to seemingly overperforming units, such as:
- T-70 wiping-on-retreats being toned down a bit;
- Guards moved to 3CP;
- SU-85 toned down a bit (sight or pen);
- Penals early game somehow toned down a tiny bit.
I think it would be interesting to test Soviet team weapons going down to 5 men. This still gives them a faction trait survivability increase in comparison to all other factions, while becoming a bit easier to counter for Axis. Especially late game as the 6 men crew gives them a huge advantage. It would also allow the Maxim to be buffed a bit.
Perhaps with or instead some minor nerfs to seemingly overperforming units, such as:
- T-70 wiping-on-retreats being toned down a bit;
- Guards moved to 3CP;
- SU-85 toned down a bit (sight or pen);
- Penals early game somehow toned down a tiny bit.
26 Nov 2018, 14:15 PM
#85
Posts: 378
i never said the barages were op. i said they are a perfect example of an ability that should be a vet...
Why should it be a vet ability?
I think you misunderstood the point I'm making about said unit and ability serving a specific purpose.
As hard to believe as it is, the barrage ability does serve a purpose, and it wasn't given for no reason.
[
The AC tourney stats seem to comfirm Soviets are overperforming consistently.
- T-70 wiping-on-retreats being toned down a bit;
- Guards moved to 3CP;
- SU-85 toned down a bit;
- Penals early game somehow toned down a bit.
T34 85 needs to have slightly less AI. It's shells are basically on par with Sherman HE yet it does everything.
26 Nov 2018, 14:19 PM
#87
Posts: 46
SOV are still sucking heavily in the early game by 222 with flame upgrade, making Soviets bleeding by manpower a LOT. There was some examples in the tourney. Flame weapon should cost a manpower too, because either way it just too much efficient weapon for a little cost
26 Nov 2018, 14:24 PM
#88
Posts: 3166 | Subs: 6
SOV are still sucking heavily in the early game by 222 with flame upgrade, making Soviets bleeding by manpower a LOT. There was some examples in the tourney. Flame weapon should cost a manpower too, because either way it just too much efficient weapon for a little cost
I think the flame 251 is fine at pushing units off the field but the damage/wipes on retreats should be toned down a bit. Same for the T-70.
For 251 this could probably be achieved by lowering direct damage while increasing lava DOT.
26 Nov 2018, 15:07 PM
#89
Posts: 2243
without 222 or HT axis would be so easy to beat in early game for sov...
26 Nov 2018, 15:28 PM
#90
Posts: 46
without 222 or HT axis would be so easy to beat in early game for sov...And with them they can end the game too quickly
27 Nov 2018, 04:40 AM
#91
Posts: 5279
Why should it be a vet ability?
I think you misunderstood the point I'm making about said unit and ability serving a specific purpose.
As hard to believe as it is, the barrage ability does serve a purpose, and it wasn't given for no reason.
You are right that it wasn't given for no reason. When the zis was designed it had lower pen and a significantly slower ROF than the pak. The barrage was to compensate for that along with the 6 man crew. Since the the ROF has been brought in line and the pen is closer than ever. The zis still has +2 models and a devistating barrage making it by and far the best AT gun by a large margin. It wakes sense to gate the barrage because it means getting an AT gun out too soon effects your AI slightly in the same way it does all of the other factions.
Likewise the su76 also having a barrage, at the time it had something akin to T34 pen, but only 120 damage. The barrage existed solely to attempt to make the unit attractive.
The abilities that were in place to compensate an otherwise underwhelming unit shouldn't be as accessible now that the unit themselves are up to snuff.
#stalinwept
27 Nov 2018, 09:33 AM
#92
Posts: 290
You are right that it wasn't given for no reason. When the zis was designed it had lower pen and a significantly slower ROF than the pak. The barrage was to compensate for that along with the 6 man crew. Since the the ROF has been brought in line and the pen is closer than ever. The zis still has +2 models and a devistating barrage making it by and far the best AT gun by a large margin. It wakes sense to gate the barrage because it means getting an AT gun out too soon effects your AI slightly in the same way it does all of the other factions.
Likewise the su76 also having a barrage, at the time it had something akin to T34 pen, but only 120 damage. The barrage existed solely to attempt to make the unit attractive.
The abilities that were in place to compensate an otherwise underwhelming unit shouldn't be as accessible now that the unit themselves are up to snuff.
Agree 100% There has been buffs to units like those that were too weak, but were left their extra abilities which again makes soviets more do it all units whenever you build any unit. You need AI --> build AT-gun --> You need squad wiping machine and dominate battlefield until medium tanks --> T70 --> You need infantry that can do it all --> Penal & Guard spam.
At the moment I would say maxim is the best MG in the game too. It's arc was widened, but nothing was done to how fast it can still redeploy.
27 Nov 2018, 09:43 AM
#93
Posts: 17884 | Subs: 8
Agree 100% There has been buffs to units like those that were too weak, but were left their extra abilities which again makes soviets more do it all units whenever you build any unit. You need AI --> build AT-gun --> You need squad wiping machine and dominate battlefield until medium tanks --> T70 --> You need infantry that can do it all --> Penal & Guard spam.
At the moment I would say maxim is the best MG in the game too. It's arc was widened, but nothing was done to how fast it can still redeploy.
Multirole units that don't excell ant anything is soviet quirk the same way vehicle crews are usf quirk.
And I don't think you have used Maxim this year.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
27 Nov 2018, 09:49 AM
#94
Posts: 290
Multirole units that don't excell ant anything is soviet quirk the same way vehicle crews are usf quirk.
And I don't think you have used Maxim this year.
I have been taking rather maxim steals if choice of mg42 back or take maxim. The redeployment and almost same suppression ability as in mg42 makes the maxim just better to use. If you have checked the tournaments anyway soviets is the main faction when playing allies.
27 Nov 2018, 10:17 AM
#95
Posts: 1044 | Subs: 1
I have been taking rather maxim steals if choice of mg42 back or take maxim. The redeployment and almost same suppression ability as in mg42 makes the maxim just better to use. If you have checked the tournaments anyway soviets is the main faction when playing allies.
I recommend reconsidering as the mg42 is the best mg in the game right now. No MG comes close to it with incen rounds and only the 50 cal can compare normally. Also it doesnt get the death loop animation unlike the maxim and 50 cal.
Maxim does less damage, less suppression, and has a smaller arc ontop of the mg42 having a better vet ability.
bg /l
27 Nov 2018, 11:06 AM
#96
Posts: 290
I recommend reconsidering as the mg42 is the best mg in the game right now. No MG comes close to it with incen rounds and only the 50 cal can compare normally. Also it doesnt get the death loop animation unlike the maxim and 50 cal.
Maxim does less damage, less suppression, and has a smaller arc ontop of the mg42 having a better vet ability.
Maxim is the ultimate move with your infantry mg with it's fast redeploy and avoiding indirect fire. MG42 is slow and cumbersome, I am not saying that it's not good, but those put down down & pull up deployment times make you lose them all the time or they are just too slow to redeploy and you have already lost to flank maneuver because of it.
MG's anyway are for suppression not for damage. Only Vickers & 50cal excel in pure damage, of course mg42 with incendiary rounds deal damage, but normally it's like maxim just suppression platform.
27 Nov 2018, 11:41 AM
#97
Posts: 290
SOV are still sucking heavily in the early game by 222 with flame upgrade, making Soviets bleeding by manpower a LOT. There was some examples in the tourney. Flame weapon should cost a manpower too, because either way it just too much efficient weapon for a little cost
90 muni upgrade --> less or no tellers --> no pak against light vehicle that should be coming to the map in 1min after flame ht. Soviets are the easiest faction to counter flame HT, penal squad with ptrs deals with it easily or conscript with "uraa" and at nade spam on it...
27 Nov 2018, 11:44 AM
#98
Posts: 17884 | Subs: 8
90 muni upgrade --> less or no tellers --> no pak against light vehicle that should be coming to the map in 1min after flame ht. Soviets are the easiest faction to counter flame HT, penal squad with ptrs deals with it easily or conscript with "uraa" and at nade spam on it...
1v1 and 2v2 tournaments replays say otherwise.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
27 Nov 2018, 11:54 AM
#99
Posts: 290
1v1 and 2v2 tournaments replays say otherwise.
Did my reply somehow get you confused Katitof that I was saying flame HT isn't good? I was just saying the easy and good counters soviets can get against it.
27 Nov 2018, 12:07 PM
#100
Posts: 17884 | Subs: 8
Did my reply somehow get you confused Katitof that I was saying flame HT isn't good? I was just saying the easy and good counters soviets can get against it.
Deterrents, not counters.
FHT will have little problems chasing off PTRS penals when it keeps range.
PTRS isn't going to kill even kubel on their own and AT nades are rarely picked, because cons are rarely picked outside of single doctrine with guards, making AT nades redundant in early game.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
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