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OKW needs some nerfs don’t you think?

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24 Oct 2018, 13:03 PM
#21
avatar of jagd wölfe

Posts: 1660



To fix the Rak cheese all they need to do is buff its accuracy and a bit extra when attacking out of stealth and make it immobile. The thing is pretty decent when it hits but the ground receives more shots than anything. Creeping death is simply cheesy and if it's there to make up for its poor performance it seems like buffing its performance is the best for both parties. Making it immobile when camo but effective promoted planning and ambush, clearly its not to be like other AT guns so let's just make it effective at its intended role already.

And give it back its +5 range at vet. This thing dies to a sneeze at least reward keeping it alive by only being slightly shorter range than other AT guns...

Raketen can't be fixed. The issue lies within the low profile of raketen, those ground hits aren't misses but collisions.
24 Oct 2018, 13:08 PM
#22
avatar of Lago

Posts: 3260

jump backJump back to quoted post24 Oct 2018, 12:44 PMVipper

That imo is incorrect and exactly result of continues buffs. High lethality means that fight last less and are more result being caught out in the open than using tactics.

One has to simply choose a single faction as benchmark, decide the appropriate power of that faction and balance all other faction according to the benchmark.


So choose the three factions that are pretty well balanced to each other as that benchmark, rather than the two factions that are a bit of a mess.
24 Oct 2018, 13:15 PM
#23
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17875 | Subs: 8

jump backJump back to quoted post24 Oct 2018, 12:44 PMVipper

That imo is incorrect and exactly result of continues buffs. High lethality means that fight last less and are more result being caught out in the open than using tactics.

One has to simply choose a single faction as benchmark, decide the appropriate power of that faction and balance all other faction according to the benchmark.

Buffs do not equal increasing DPS, so I have no idea what you're on about with lethality here.

Pop decreases, cost decreases, rec acc buffs all affect balance as well and do not increase lethality of unit.

We also have 3 factions reliatively equal to each other and 2 falling far behind.
Its perfectly logical and most obvious way to go about buffing the two instead meddling with all of them by artificially trying to bring them all down/up to selected "benchmark" faction, which may not be balanced itself.

Look at ost as an example - overall its fine and balanced faction, right? Yet brummbar is currently most op unit in game, skewing balance perception, especially in late game, where brum is king of murder.
24 Oct 2018, 13:37 PM
#24
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post24 Oct 2018, 13:08 PMLago

So choose the three factions that are pretty well balanced to each other as that benchmark, rather than the two factions that are a bit of a mess.

It does not make sense to have more than 1 benchmark, it increases complexity while offer very little.

In addition this is more a result of 3 faction being buffed and not the USF being nerfed.

The power level of factions was fine before the changes I mentioned before so it should return at that level else you are running the risk of turning the game into an arcade game.
24 Oct 2018, 15:45 PM
#25
avatar of Tobis
Senior Strategist Badge
Donator 11

Posts: 2307 | Subs: 4

u are totally right we need to remove the rakteen and give the okw the pack 20 from vcoh

I would kill for this bad boy
24 Oct 2018, 16:11 PM
#26
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 4474

jump backJump back to quoted post24 Oct 2018, 10:53 AMblancat


go back to your fatherland
are u saying the vcoh pack was too good ?
24 Oct 2018, 17:03 PM
#27
avatar of Grim

Posts: 1093

OKW is generally fine and I'm a borderline allied fanboi.

Volks STG needs to not be such a riskless, no brain upgrade but that's about it.

25 Oct 2018, 00:56 AM
#28
avatar of LoopDloop

Posts: 3053


Raketen can't be fixed. The issue lies within the low profile of raketen, those ground hits aren't misses but collisions.


Muh historical realism.

Isn’t there a weapon code setting that can disable projectile collision with ground/obstacles/etc.? IIRC it’s used on the luchs, centaur, and ISU152 that I know of. Just set that on and nerf accuracy a little (so it doesn’t end up hitting things more than all the other at guns as a result) and problem solved.

jump backJump back to quoted post24 Oct 2018, 15:45 PMTobis

I would kill for this bad boy

Ah the fond memories. Perma-immobilize might be just a tiny bit op in coh2 though lol.
25 Oct 2018, 03:47 AM
#29
avatar of ShadowLinkX37
Director of Moderation Badge

Posts: 4183 | Subs: 4



Muh historical realism.

Isn’t there a weapon code setting that can disable projectile collision with ground/obstacles/etc.? IIRC it’s used on the luchs, centaur, and ISU152 that I know of. Just set that on and nerf accuracy a little (so it doesn’t end up hitting things more than all the other at guns as a result) and problem solved.


Ah the fond memories. Perma-immobilize might be just a tiny bit op in coh2 though lol.


Well they don't seem to wanna remove immobilize from the M6 or Riegal.....
25 Oct 2018, 21:20 PM
#30
avatar of jagd wölfe

Posts: 1660



Muh historical realism.

Isn’t there a weapon code setting that can disable projectile collision with ground/obstacles/etc.? IIRC it’s used on the luchs, centaur, and ISU152 that I know of. Just set that on and nerf accuracy a little (so it doesn’t end up hitting things more than all the other at guns as a result) and problem solved.


Ah the fond memories. Perma-immobilize might be just a tiny bit op in coh2 though lol.

It doesn't work for the vehicles already implemented AT ALL. Feel free to pick an Ostwind and place cons behijd a stone wall and test by yourself how wall soak tons of shots

Fun fact: the supposed no hit "ground or object" magic trick has already been implemented for raketen (i know it is depressing)

From changelog:

Raketenwerfer
The Raketenwerfer has been adjusted to be less potent at veterancy, but more reliable and more difficult to lockdown by HMGs.
Projectile no longer collides with terrain
25 Oct 2018, 21:26 PM
#31
avatar of jagd wölfe

Posts: 1660

jump backJump back to quoted post24 Oct 2018, 15:45 PMTobis

I would kill for this bad boy


That akward moment when your girl catches you at night searching for special purpose german halftracks on very questionable internet sites.

"T-That's not how it looks"
25 Oct 2018, 23:28 PM
#32
avatar of LoopDloop

Posts: 3053



Well they don't seem to wanna remove immobilize from the M6 or Riegal.....

Well yeah but do you really think immobilizing mines are comparable to a long range vehicle that can literally snipe the treads off a tank forever (until it gets repaired anyway)? There’s a reason the only vehicle capable of immobilizing at all anymore is kinda slow, dies in 3 at gun hits, has normal range, and has to take 2 shots for a timed immobilization. It was even considered op when the stug and even the Stuart could do it for a short duration.
25 Oct 2018, 23:37 PM
#33
avatar of ShadowLinkX37
Director of Moderation Badge

Posts: 4183 | Subs: 4


Well yeah but do you really think immobilizing mines are comparable to a long range vehicle that can literally snipe the treads off a tank forever (until it gets repaired anyway)? There’s a reason the only vehicle capable of immobilizing at all anymore is kinda slow, dies in 3 at gun hits, has normal range, and has to take 2 shots for a timed immobilization. It was even considered op when the stug and even the Stuart could do it for a short duration.


I just want immobilize gone. Mechanic is way too punishing.
26 Oct 2018, 07:05 AM
#34
26 Oct 2018, 07:48 AM
#35
avatar of Jae For Jett
Senior Strategist Badge

Posts: 1002 | Subs: 2


Well yeah but do you really think immobilizing mines are comparable to a long range vehicle that can literally snipe the treads off a tank forever (until it gets repaired anyway)? There’s a reason the only vehicle capable of immobilizing at all anymore is kinda slow, dies in 3 at gun hits, has normal range, and has to take 2 shots for a timed immobilization. It was even considered op when the stug and even the Stuart could do it for a short duration.

Small note though that the tread shot itself actually has 50 range.
26 Oct 2018, 08:46 AM
#36
avatar of Stark

Posts: 626 | Subs: 1

This thread:

https://www.coh2.org/topic/83610/okw-needs-some-nerfs-don-t-you-think

next Thread

https://www.coh2.org/topic/83587/okw-underperforming



Jesus Christ, mods.... and what you do is invising my posts....


I was going to add the same thing xD
27 Oct 2018, 01:20 AM
#37
avatar of LoopDloop

Posts: 3053


Small note though that the tread shot itself actually has 50 range.

True but you usually have to be much closer to pull it off unless they're going full speed towards you since it has to take 2 shots (and not miss either of them).
1 Nov 2018, 19:50 PM
#38
avatar of dhkdeoen

Posts: 14

In this patch usf is getting some potent early game commanders and ukf is getting good general tools.
Would wait and see.



the thing is, Allies depend on commanders too much. 0 tier assault infantry/AT/light vehicles, heavy tanks, artillery unit.. OKW has them as default. USF needs commander for each. that doesn't even make sense, considering what US army had during the war.

and I wouldn't care about what actually happened during the war if the game is balanced.
1 Nov 2018, 22:11 PM
#39
avatar of jagd wölfe

Posts: 1660



the thing is, Allies depend on commanders too much. 0 tier assault infantry/AT/light vehicles, heavy tanks, artillery unit.. OKW has them as default. USF needs commander for each. that doesn't even make sense, considering what US army had during the war.

and I wouldn't care about what actually happened during the war if the game is balanced.


"Axis" aren't a faction but two separate armies with mutually exclusive rosters.

Going by your logic, allies are the ones that lacks nothing and have even more. Heavy tank (churchill), rocket arty (katy), early assault unit (penals), flamethrower (su), late ai vehicle (m8, centaur), mortar (su, usa), artillery (pack howie), light vehicles (i will avoid this for obvious reason, there's a total of 5 axis light vehicles non doc, 2 being a car, while allies have 7)...

Ironically, while there's nothing that at least one allied faction doesn't get non doctrinally, "axis" lacks
* a generalist premium like ez8 or non doc comet
* self propelled arty like sexton and priest
* non doc offmap artillery and recon like those provided by british flare and us major.

I don't get how allies are more dependant on commanders than axis are, GCS2 showed that players are extremely selective with axis commanders.
Wehrmacht was completely reliant on puma panic button (which is getting removed basically).
1 Nov 2018, 23:10 PM
#40
avatar of murky depths

Posts: 607

non doc comet?

You mean, a Panther?
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