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russian armor

OKW UP?

27 Sep 2018, 04:00 AM
#41
avatar of gbem

Posts: 1979



How to spot bias: Say that riflemen beat volks (which is what you implied when you said volks beat riflemen at long) at short range and strums beat riflemen at short range but only claim one is OP.


How to spot an idiot: claim i mentioned that anything was OP... i said riflemen are UP not volks or sturms OP

jump backJump back to quoted post26 Sep 2018, 17:11 PMgbem
OKW matches pretty fairly with sov and wehr... their winrates are overall pretty close... the only real factions with really low winrates is ukf and usf both of which need big buffs...
27 Sep 2018, 08:43 AM
#42
avatar of Sander93

Posts: 3166 | Subs: 6

Doesn’t puma HEAT take 4 shots to kill mediums? Unless you mean something other than tanks.


It takes 4 (and a bit) to kill mediums with Puma HEAT shells judging by testing, but they do practically guarantee penetration at max range. Puma is a really strong stopgap with HEAT shells.
27 Sep 2018, 09:38 AM
#43
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1



It takes 4 (and a bit) to kill mediums with Puma HEAT shells judging by testing, but they do practically guarantee penetration at max range. Puma is a really strong stopgap with HEAT shells.


This are the values of the Puma

Penetration near 160
Penetration mid 120
Penetration far 80
Damage 120
---
Accuracy near 0.05
Accuracy mid 0.0375
Accuracy far 0.025

This should the values with heat shot


Penetration near 208
Penetration mid 156
Penetration far 104
Damage 156
----
Accuracy near 0.05
Accuracy mid 0.0375
Accuracy far 0.025

The chance to penetrate a Cromwell at max range is not 100% but 65%. In addition the chance to score a natural hit hit that range is also low (55%) bring the total chance to hit the penetrate at max range to down to 36% (a bit higher due to collision hits).

Finally there is no not 4 and something, it need 5 shot that hit the penetrate and it the chance to do so before the ability runs out make it very improbable.

The ability is not bad on puma but hardy as powerful as described.
27 Sep 2018, 10:20 AM
#44
avatar of Sander93

Posts: 3166 | Subs: 6

Sorry but I forgot to specify. Vet3 OKW Puma gives +33% damage. With 'and a bit' I meant other sources of minor damage, such as fausts.

At vet1 Puma with HEAT leaves mediums at 2,5% HP after 4 shots, leaving them killable by practically everything that isn't a rifle. Throw in a faust and the Puma finishes mediums with 4 shots.

At vet3 Puma with HEAT leaves mediums at 2,7% HP after 3 shots. Throw in a faust and the Puma finishes mediums with 3 shots.


Coupled with the higher penetration values the Puma with HEAT shells will serve much better as a medium tank deterrent than a stock Puma.
27 Sep 2018, 10:40 AM
#45
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1

...

Coupled with the higher penetration values the Puma with HEAT shells will serve much better as a medium tank deterrent than a stock Puma.

The Puma with Heat is much better that stock Puma do but I feel the need to clarify that Puma at max range has very low accuracy and Penetration even with "HEAT", and it not as effective as other units in kitting.

The unit becomes allot better when used to closer ranges (the DPS curve is allot higher at close ranges) and thus can be used as "flanker".

The only problem with it is that moving speed is greatly affect by terrain and while is very fast on road and or even terrain it performance drops dramatically on the late battle field that is covered with creators. This gap should be reduced.
27 Sep 2018, 11:06 AM
#46
avatar of Sander93

Posts: 3166 | Subs: 6

I agree. I'm just pointing out that the HEAT shells really complement the Puma's ability to nullify the influence of the first Allied tanks, because the shells largely solve the Puma's main drawbacks which are low damage and low med-far penetration. Makes OKW's light vehicle play pretty strong and offsets the drawback of having rather expensive tech/tanks.
27 Sep 2018, 14:31 PM
#47
avatar of gbem

Posts: 1979

27 Sep 2018, 15:31 PM
#48
avatar of Tiger Baron

Posts: 3143 | Subs: 2

The OKW just needs some proper support weapons in my opinion, simply adding them in a doctrine would fix the problem.

Specifically it's the case of their AT gun, the Raketen, failing to meet it's mark that's the overall down pour of the Army in my opinion.

That and all of their heavier vehicles like the KT, JT and Sturmtiger feeling crippled, again, at least to me.

This is just what I personally think from my experience with them.
27 Sep 2018, 16:03 PM
#49
avatar of gbem

Posts: 1979

The OKW just needs some proper support weapons in my opinion, simply adding them in a doctrine would fix the problem.

Specifically it's the case of their AT gun, the Raketen, failing to meet it's mark that's the overall down pour of the Army in my opinion.

That and all of their heavier vehicles like the KT, JT and Sturmtiger feeling crippled, again, at least to me.

This is just what I personally think from my experience with them.


OKW is not UP nor OP... buffing okws main weakness would lead to its dominance over the meta AGAIN... anyone who says okw is UP is most likely just a scrub...
also the JT is not crippled... and the KT is just as crippled as the IS-2...

27 Sep 2018, 16:28 PM
#50
avatar of Tiger Baron

Posts: 3143 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post27 Sep 2018, 16:03 PMgbem


OKW is not UP nor OP... buffing okws main weakness would lead to its dominance over the meta AGAIN... anyone who says okw is UP is most likely just a scrub...
also the JT is not crippled... and the KT is just as crippled as the IS-2...



Never said anything about OKW being UP or OP, or buffing for a matter of fact.

I only pointed out a major design flaw of theirs.

I also don't see the point in you being an Allied fanboy, I play all Armies equally, well, except for the Soviets since I don't like communists but that's another matter...

Like I said it's just my opinion so no need to hint at me being a scrub or starting to compare units which I talk about for the sake of an argument.
27 Sep 2018, 16:50 PM
#51
avatar of gbem

Posts: 1979



Never said anything about OKW being UP or OP, or buffing for a matter of fact.

I only pointed out a major design flaw of theirs.

I also don't see the point in you being an Allied fanboy, I play all Armies equally, well, except for the Soviets since I don't like communists but that's another matter...

Like I said it's just my opinion so no need to hint at me being a scrub or starting to compare units which I talk about for the sake of an argument.


problem is alot of scrubs in this forum seem to think that okw is UP (which it clearly isnt)...and ask for all sorts of buffs to what is already the best faction ingame (statistically speaking)... which youve gotta admit is kinda ridiculous

as for the major design flaw let okw at least keep that flaw... every other faction has a major flaw and it would be kinda broken if okw were not to get such a flaw...
27 Sep 2018, 17:24 PM
#52
avatar of Grim

Posts: 1094

That and all of their heavier vehicles like the KT, JT and Sturmtiger feeling crippled, again, at least to me.


Tbh I think all the heavy vehicles in the game save for the Tiger I and the Churchill (base version) are pretty gimped.
27 Sep 2018, 19:16 PM
#53
avatar of Outsider_Sidaroth

Posts: 1323 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post27 Sep 2018, 17:24 PMGrim


Tbh I think all the heavy vehicles in the game save for the Tiger I and the Churchill (base version) are pretty gimped.


Forgot the Pershing in that list.
27 Sep 2018, 19:34 PM
#54
avatar of Knuckles2095

Posts: 3

The OKW just needs some proper support weapons in my opinion, simply adding them in a doctrine would fix the problem.

Specifically it's the case of their AT gun, the Raketen, failing to meet it's mark that's the overall down pour of the Army in my opinion.

That and all of their heavier vehicles like the KT, JT and Sturmtiger feeling crippled, again, at least to me.

This is just what I personally think from my experience with them.



may i ask why you (and Others) see the raketen as an inferior atg? for me it is in line with other atgs and in many cases thanks to the invisibilty and ability to retreat it can do things you can't do with other factions.
27 Sep 2018, 19:49 PM
#55
avatar of Tiger Baron

Posts: 3143 | Subs: 2




may i ask why you (and Others) see the raketen as an inferior atg? for me it is in line with other atgs and in many cases thanks to the invisibilty and ability to retreat it can do things you can't do with other factions.


Because I've been playing with the OKW since they were first released and I experienced first hand the raketen's brilliant yet faulty design.

If you go around the forums or just search for "raketen" you will find many mentions of it's bug caused by it being "too low to the ground" so to speak, as in the rocket often hits the ground instead of the intended target because of the model and where the shell spawns at.

Nobody is doubting it's ability to cloak, retreat or garrison, I even suggested the same abilities (or mostly) be given to the Soviet M42 to make it more useful.

So that's more or less why you will find that people simply want a proper normal AT gun like the Pak 40, or a new, Pak 38.
27 Sep 2018, 20:15 PM
#56
avatar of Elaindil

Posts: 97

Raketen is a really good and balanced ATG. It can be used agressively thanks to cloak and retreat, it is really forgiving to use since you can always bail out with retreat. One can only complain if he uses it incorrectly. Though I understand that it's misssing more often than other guns and that may be an issue but nothing too serious.
27 Sep 2018, 20:34 PM
#57
avatar of mr.matrix300

Posts: 518

Raketen is a really good and balanced ATG. It can be used agressively thanks to cloak and retreat, it is really forgiving to use since you can always bail out with retreat. One can only complain if he uses it incorrectly. Though I understand that it's misssing more often than other guns and that may be an issue but nothing too serious.



- Has never played with OKW
- Claims raketen is a
really good and balanced ATG
and that
One can only complain if he uses it incorrectly


...



Now back to topic:
From my point of view OKW is a bit UP f.e. because they lack a decent AT gun. I mean it is nice and dandy that your AT gun can cloak (and retreat) without having to choose a doctrine but it would be even better to have a raketen which doesn't miss 50% of all shots, is able to penetrate heavy tanks reliable like other fractions AT guns and doesn't decrew after 1-2 hits(I heard that this is because raketen offers no cover to its crew unlike other AT guns?)


27 Sep 2018, 20:37 PM
#58
avatar of Sander93

Posts: 3166 | Subs: 6

it is really forgiving to use since you can always bail out with retreat.


The crew dies when the enemy so much as gives them a filthy look, I'd hardly say they are forgiving. Crew survivability is absolutely trash and it can/will lose a frontal 1v1 engagement to most medium tanks, and the range, penetration and accuracy are lacking. The other traits such as stealth and retreating mitigate these drawbacks only to some extend. In the end it's a decent high risk high reward unit that is usable, but it is not good. I'd much rather have a regular 60 range good accuracy/pen PaK 40 than this thing.
27 Sep 2018, 21:24 PM
#59
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2



Forgot the Pershing in that list.


Pershing is more of an advance premium medium tbh. Having speed and small HP pool, i wouldn't consider it a heavy even if it has armor. If a PV had the same AoE as the Pershing, i wouldn't consider it a heavy neither. It's the OP version of pre nerf comets.
27 Sep 2018, 21:37 PM
#60
avatar of SupremeStefan

Posts: 1220


I play all Armies equally, well, except for the Soviets since I don't like communists but that's another matter...
yeah i know what u mean i dont like communists too but nazis are ok so i play okw
Edit: im sorry that im use word not allowed to watch for german ppl
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