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OKW UP?

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insaneHoshi
27 Sep 2018, 22:33 PM
#61
avatar of insaneHoshi

Posts: 911

jump backJump back to quoted post27 Sep 2018, 19:34 PMKnuckles2095



may i ask why you (and Others) see the raketen as an inferior atg? for me it is in line with other atgs and in many cases thanks to the invisibilty and ability to retreat it can do things you can't do with other factions.


60 range and reverse > cloak and retreat

You don't need a cloak when you have a 60 range atg that is good as cloaked when firing from the fog.

You also don't need to retreat when you have 60 range and can just reverse away from any advancing troops.

Retreat also makes them easier to steal.

Retreat also works by the crew moving closer to what it's running from before it turns around to run away.

Also it's high ready time and it's fence post attracting projectiles. Someone correct me if I am wrong but the projectile will always hit objects if they are in the way.

Oh and until hold fire while garrisoned is ever fixed, garrisoning a raken is kinda a noob trap.
Imagine my playercard is here
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Grim
27 Sep 2018, 23:07 PM
#62
avatar of Grim

Posts: 1094

jump backJump back to quoted post27 Sep 2018, 19:16 PMOutsider_Sidaroth


Forgot the Pershing in that list.


I'd count the Pershing as more of a medium tank in truth, an overpriced medium tank at that.
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gbem
27 Sep 2018, 23:58 PM
#63
avatar of gbem

Posts: 1979

Idk about you... but cloak and retreat is an extremely powerful tool in the right hands... it can quickly delete a tank especially when u have double rakatens
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Elaindil
28 Sep 2018, 12:46 PM
#64
avatar of Elaindil

Posts: 97

jump backJump back to quoted post27 Sep 2018, 20:34 PMmr.matrix300



- Has never played with OKW
- Claims raketen is a and that

...



Now back to topic:
From my point of view OKW is a bit UP f.e. because they lack a decent AT gun. I mean it is nice and dandy that your AT gun can cloak (and retreat) without having to choose a doctrine but it would be even better to have a raketen which doesn't miss 50% of all shots, is able to penetrate heavy tanks reliable like other fractions AT guns and doesn't decrew after 1-2 hits(I heard that this is because raketen offers no cover to its crew unlike other AT guns?)




Yeah I don't play OKW (I don't have them yet). But I play all other factions and against OKW and see that rak can be used quite successfuly and it is on par with other allied ATG. I am not a high rank player but I would guess players that I play against are decent.

Sorry but looking at your rank you are either playing against\with people who don't know how to use the gun (and probably any ATG for that matter) or it might be you. And that 50% miss thing, are you for real?


jump backJump back to quoted post27 Sep 2018, 22:33 PMinsaneHoshi


60 range and reverse > cloak and retreat

You don't need a cloak when you have a 60 range atg that is good as cloaked when firing from the fog.

You also don't need to retreat when you have 60 range and can just reverse away from any advancing troops.

Retreat also makes them easier to steal.

Retreat also works by the crew moving closer to what it's running from before it turns around to run away.



Are you really complaining about retreat right know and saying that reverse is better? Do you walk your infantry to base too instead of retreating?
The only gun that has a comparable survivability is soviet Zis due to bigger crew.

I agree that 60 range ATG might be better though but I would say retreating and cloak kinda make up for that.
http://www.companyofheroes.com/leaderboards#profile/steam/76561198033143735/standings
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mr.matrix300
28 Sep 2018, 17:32 PM
#65
avatar of mr.matrix300

Posts: 518

jump backJump back to quoted post28 Sep 2018, 12:46 PMElaindil

Yeah I don't play OKW (I don't have them yet). But I play all other factions and against OKW and see that rak can be used quite successfuly and it is on par with other allied ATG.

It can be used successfully but it is by far not on par with allied ATG. A common tactic with raketen is to get at least 3 of them. I never heard that it is the same with Pak 40 or any other AT gun.


jump backJump back to quoted post28 Sep 2018, 12:46 PMElaindil
Sorry but looking at your rank you are either playing against\with people who don't know how to use the gun (and probably any ATG for that matter) or it might be you.

Maybe you actually start playing OKW instead of blaming others for not knowing on how to use a AT gun?


jump backJump back to quoted post28 Sep 2018, 12:46 PMElaindil

And that 50% miss thing, are you for real?

Raketen missing a lot is a known problem.

jump backJump back to quoted post28 Sep 2018, 12:46 PMElaindil

Are you really complaining about retreat right know and saying that reverse is better? Do you walk your infantry to base too instead of retreating?

Does infantry need to make a big circle (and thus showing its weak spot) before falling back?


jump backJump back to quoted post28 Sep 2018, 12:46 PMElaindil
The only gun that has a comparable survivability is soviet Zis due to bigger crew.


jump backJump back to quoted post28 Sep 2018, 12:46 PMElaindil

And that 50% miss thing, are you for real?


Look there! A test-match which was done extra for you.


jump backJump back to quoted post2 Jun 2018, 04:21 AMRocket
Haha the votes on this alone show the euro synphatheizers feel they just deserve to win. Anytime an okw nerf is brought up. Brain dead faction that skilless people can play and i refuse to play because of it.






Playing with randoms





jump backJump back to quoted post2 Jun 2018, 04:21 AMRocket
Haha the votes on this alone show the euro synphatheizers feel they just deserve to win. Anytime an okw nerf is brought up. Brain dead faction that skilless people can play and i refuse to play because of it.




jump backJump back to quoted post12 Aug 2020, 12:59 PMKatitof

I've talked with mods enough times, I know when I'm going overboard, I usually limit myself, but there is only so much tolerance I have for entitled, ignorant fucks like you




jump backJump back to quoted post18 Aug 2020, 04:14 AMCODGUY
The idea that the Jackson needed ANY nerfing is so laughable. It only serves ONE task, how dare it be good at that. If it were a good against infantry like the Panther, King Tiger, Panzer IV, Jagtiger, Elefant, I could see how it might be a problem and need a nerf but it's not









jump backJump back to quoted post2 Jun 2018, 04:21 AMRocket
Haha the votes on this alone show the euro synphatheizers feel they just deserve to win. Anytime an okw nerf is brought up. Brain dead faction that skilless people can play and i refuse to play because of it.







jump backJump back to quoted post12 Aug 2020, 12:59 PMKatitof

I've talked with mods enough times, I know when I'm going overboard, I usually limit myself, but there is only so much tolerance I have for entitled, ignorant fucks like you







jump backJump back to quoted post18 Aug 2020, 04:11 AMCODGUY
I don't play this version of EZ mode very often because it's so boringly simple. But it is funny to see the Axis circle jerk with people complaining that the one faction with every crutch in the book is some how underpowered lol.







jump backJump back to quoted post18 Aug 2020, 04:14 AMCODGUY
The idea that the Jackson needed ANY nerfing is so laughable. It only serves ONE task, how dare it be good at that. If it were a good against infantry like the Panther, King Tiger, Panzer IV, Jagtiger, Elefant, I could see how it might be a problem and need a nerf but it's not







jump backJump back to quoted post2 Jun 2018, 04:21 AMRocket
Haha the votes on this alone show the euro synphatheizers feel they just deserve to win. Anytime an okw nerf is brought up. Brain dead faction that skilless people can play and i refuse to play because of it.






jump backJump back to quoted post29 Jun 2020, 19:21 PMIncendiaryRounds:)

u deserve to lose if u don't have an Ele when there's an ISU.
Just stay out of topics u have no knowledge of, Latch.




jump backJump back to quoted post12 Aug 2020, 10:02 AMProtos Angelus


Ranked, I only play USF. Wouldn't be caught dead playing Nazis with some sort of record being taken





jump backJump back to quoted post12 Aug 2020, 12:59 PMKatitof

I've talked with mods enough times, I know when I'm going overboard, I usually limit myself, but there is only so much tolerance I have for entitled, ignorant fucks like you, and wouldn't be surprised to be hit again, but I'm fed up with this bullshit and honestly, the sole fact that I'm not permad is what keeps me here having discussions about the game I like and yes, I do question myself why I still go back here to this free range insane asylum so often.



jump backJump back to quoted post12 Aug 2020, 12:59 PMKatitof

I've talked with mods enough times, I know when I'm going overboard, I usually limit myself, but there is only so much tolerance I have for entitled, ignorant fucks like you




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gbem
28 Sep 2018, 18:18 PM
#66
avatar of gbem

Posts: 1979

jump backJump back to quoted post28 Sep 2018, 17:32 PMmr.matrix300

It can be used successfully but it is by far not on par with allied ATG. A common tactic with raketen is to get at least 3 of them. I never heard that it is the same with Pak 40 or any other AT gun.



Maybe you actually start playing OKW instead of blaming others for not knowing on how to use a AT gun?



Raketen missing a lot is a known problem.


Does infantry need to make a big circle (and thus showing its weak spot) before falling back?






Look there! A test-match which was done extra for you.




i personally love the rakaten... you have to play by its strengths and not its weaknesses however... dont try treating it like a pak 40... rather use it to hide in wait and ambush armored vehicles when u feign retreats... its really effective if they catch the bait... even if they didnt you could still reposition it to get flanking shots on static tanks youve spotted with scout troops...
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elchino7
28 Sep 2018, 18:40 PM
#67
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post28 Sep 2018, 17:32 PMmr.matrix300

It can be used successfully but it is by far not on par with allied ATG. A common tactic with raketen is to get at least 3 of them. I never heard that it is the same with Pak 40 or any other AT gun.



Have you never heard the term pak wall ? Less common this days but in other metas it wasn't weird to see pak wall + AI call in vehicle.
My controls weren't working
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.

Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.

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mr.matrix300
28 Sep 2018, 18:50 PM
#68
avatar of mr.matrix300

Posts: 518

jump backJump back to quoted post28 Sep 2018, 18:40 PMelchino7


Have you never heard the term pak wall ? Less common this days but in other metas it wasn't weird to see pak wall + AI call in vehicle.


Do you need to have a "wall of paks" to kill Allied tanks? Do you need a "wall of raketens" to kill allied tanks?
jump backJump back to quoted post2 Jun 2018, 04:21 AMRocket
Haha the votes on this alone show the euro synphatheizers feel they just deserve to win. Anytime an okw nerf is brought up. Brain dead faction that skilless people can play and i refuse to play because of it.






Playing with randoms





jump backJump back to quoted post2 Jun 2018, 04:21 AMRocket
Haha the votes on this alone show the euro synphatheizers feel they just deserve to win. Anytime an okw nerf is brought up. Brain dead faction that skilless people can play and i refuse to play because of it.




jump backJump back to quoted post12 Aug 2020, 12:59 PMKatitof

I've talked with mods enough times, I know when I'm going overboard, I usually limit myself, but there is only so much tolerance I have for entitled, ignorant fucks like you




jump backJump back to quoted post18 Aug 2020, 04:14 AMCODGUY
The idea that the Jackson needed ANY nerfing is so laughable. It only serves ONE task, how dare it be good at that. If it were a good against infantry like the Panther, King Tiger, Panzer IV, Jagtiger, Elefant, I could see how it might be a problem and need a nerf but it's not









jump backJump back to quoted post2 Jun 2018, 04:21 AMRocket
Haha the votes on this alone show the euro synphatheizers feel they just deserve to win. Anytime an okw nerf is brought up. Brain dead faction that skilless people can play and i refuse to play because of it.







jump backJump back to quoted post12 Aug 2020, 12:59 PMKatitof

I've talked with mods enough times, I know when I'm going overboard, I usually limit myself, but there is only so much tolerance I have for entitled, ignorant fucks like you







jump backJump back to quoted post18 Aug 2020, 04:11 AMCODGUY
I don't play this version of EZ mode very often because it's so boringly simple. But it is funny to see the Axis circle jerk with people complaining that the one faction with every crutch in the book is some how underpowered lol.







jump backJump back to quoted post18 Aug 2020, 04:14 AMCODGUY
The idea that the Jackson needed ANY nerfing is so laughable. It only serves ONE task, how dare it be good at that. If it were a good against infantry like the Panther, King Tiger, Panzer IV, Jagtiger, Elefant, I could see how it might be a problem and need a nerf but it's not







jump backJump back to quoted post2 Jun 2018, 04:21 AMRocket
Haha the votes on this alone show the euro synphatheizers feel they just deserve to win. Anytime an okw nerf is brought up. Brain dead faction that skilless people can play and i refuse to play because of it.






jump backJump back to quoted post29 Jun 2020, 19:21 PMIncendiaryRounds:)

u deserve to lose if u don't have an Ele when there's an ISU.
Just stay out of topics u have no knowledge of, Latch.




jump backJump back to quoted post12 Aug 2020, 10:02 AMProtos Angelus


Ranked, I only play USF. Wouldn't be caught dead playing Nazis with some sort of record being taken





jump backJump back to quoted post12 Aug 2020, 12:59 PMKatitof

I've talked with mods enough times, I know when I'm going overboard, I usually limit myself, but there is only so much tolerance I have for entitled, ignorant fucks like you, and wouldn't be surprised to be hit again, but I'm fed up with this bullshit and honestly, the sole fact that I'm not permad is what keeps me here having discussions about the game I like and yes, I do question myself why I still go back here to this free range insane asylum so often.



jump backJump back to quoted post12 Aug 2020, 12:59 PMKatitof

I've talked with mods enough times, I know when I'm going overboard, I usually limit myself, but there is only so much tolerance I have for entitled, ignorant fucks like you




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gbem
28 Sep 2018, 18:52 PM
#69
avatar of gbem

Posts: 1979

jump backJump back to quoted post28 Sep 2018, 18:40 PMelchino7


Have you never heard the term pak wall ? Less common this days but in other metas it wasn't weird to see pak wall + AI call in vehicle.


pak walls were cancer back in the day... MG-42 plus pakwall plus suckish conscripts + really bad penals back in the day + just recently nerfed maxim... horrible AF
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Kharn
28 Sep 2018, 18:56 PM
#70
avatar of Kharn

Posts: 264

You mean....

How the brumbar is being played right now w/ the PAK wall ?XD
Axis biased, Allied biased. Play every faction before you scream nerf, be a Coh2 player not an "Axis" or "Allied" player.

Playercard: 76561198006693960
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gbem
28 Sep 2018, 18:58 PM
#71
avatar of gbem

Posts: 1979

jump backJump back to quoted post28 Sep 2018, 18:56 PMKharn
You mean....

How the brumbar is being played right now w/ the PAK wall ?XD


i actually just ram brummbars smoke the MG then rush it with penal satchels.... they die really quickly... my real enemy as sov is the infamous OHK teller mine... which has ended a few games in just one lucky hit...
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elchino7
28 Sep 2018, 19:18 PM
#72
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post28 Sep 2018, 18:50 PMmr.matrix300


Do you need to have a "wall of paks" to kill Allied tanks? Do you need a "wall of raketens" to kill allied tanks?


3 is overkill but not like i've never seen it been done by top players. What comes to my mind is "Lemons" style of playing. Just long T1 support play with HT for reinforcing and slowly creeping the map. Talking about 2v2.

For cost, i'll say that 2 paks starts to be a wall of some sort. When i say pak wall, that also applies to Zis guns and UKF AT guns. It's just that the term pak wall is easier or feels better to say.

Zis gun wall with old KV8 or UKF AT gun wall with Crocs/Centaur. Those are just 2 examples.
My controls weren't working
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.

Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.

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insaneHoshi
29 Sep 2018, 05:25 AM
#73
avatar of insaneHoshi

Posts: 911

jump backJump back to quoted post28 Sep 2018, 12:46 PMElaindil


Are you really complaining about retreat right know and saying that reverse is better? Do you walk your infantry to base too instead of retreating?
The only gun that has a comparable survivability is soviet Zis due to bigger crew.

I agree that 60 range ATG might be better though but I would say retreating and cloak kinda make up for that.


Apart from the truth that reverse does increase an atgs maneuverability, Reverse and 60 range is better than retreat and 50 range. Yes Retreat is a positive, but low range counteracts it's Benifits. When an atg has 60 range it has plenary of time to micro away from any threats.

Oh and that's in addition to the fact that the raken will retreat forwards before turning around.
Imagine my playercard is here
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Tactical Imouto
29 Sep 2018, 10:30 AM
#74
avatar of Tactical Imouto

Posts: 172

Permanently Banned
Yeah its so UP it had the highest winrate in GCS LMAO
Being a God is hard.

You are not me. Therefore you suck.
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Theodosios
29 Sep 2018, 15:45 PM
#76
avatar of Theodosios
Admin Red Badge

Posts: 1554 | Subs: 7

Post #75 invised. Posts which offensively generalize and do not offer any constructive or factual content are not welcome.
"Nullum magnum ingenium sine mixtura dementiae fuit." - Lucius Annaeus Seneca
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Storm Elite
29 Sep 2018, 17:51 PM
#77
avatar of Storm Elite

Posts: 246

jump backJump back to quoted post29 Sep 2018, 10:30 AMTactical Imouto
Yeah its so UP it had the highest winrate in GCS LMAO


This is the most absurd fallacy ever, yet I see it across all game forums, from MOBAs to RTS to FPS.

Win rate means literally nothing. You cannot and must not, ever, adjust balance/redesign around win or loss rates.

A character/faction/unit/weapon in a game can be literally a Godmode hack, killing every single enemy instantly from across the entire map, and it could still have a 50% or 30% or any percent win rate due to player actions.

When something is underpowered or overpowered, it's objectively obvious. It's evident from observation, in an isolated scenario without tactics/player choice/map selection/etc. and without the need for statistics.

The moment you bring win/loss rates into it is the moment you go off the rails and start overnerfing or overbuffing things based on completely arbitrary, temporary state of multiplayer gameplay that depends on random factors and player decisions, not unit/character/weapon performance.

Please, just stop using this flawed argument and try actually reasoning from first principles for once.
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Outsider_Sidaroth
29 Sep 2018, 18:24 PM
#80
avatar of Outsider_Sidaroth

Posts: 1323 | Subs: 1

If OKW is UP then I wonder what is USF in these fellas minds.
Likely totally OP.
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