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2020 CoH 3 is becoming more real by every day

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17 May 2017, 15:28 PM
#41
avatar of |GB| The Hooligan486
Senior Referee Badge

Posts: 3602 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post17 May 2017, 15:27 PMTobis

At this point we gotta #believeindow3 that it doesn't sink the developer :snfBarton:

Just #BELIEVEINCOH3 :sibHyena:
17 May 2017, 15:57 PM
#42
avatar of aomsinzana

Posts: 284 | Subs: 1

Just #BelieveinLeLicDLC
17 May 2017, 16:46 PM
#43
avatar of zerocoh

Posts: 930

inb4 coh3 android and iOS exclusive title
17 May 2017, 20:18 PM
#44
avatar of Eupolemos
Donator 33

Posts: 368

jump backJump back to quoted post17 May 2017, 00:28 AMBudwise
What COH3 needs, for Relic to listen to what the players actually want instead of pushing a P2W DLC model. This business model basically made COH2 DOA for competitive play.


Except what CoH3 needs and what Relic needs is two different things.

After the DoWIII failure (at least I guess it is a failure) Relic will need cash with little risk, which means as many potential customers as possible.

We're going to see a CoH3 console first DLC platform.
17 May 2017, 20:40 PM
#45
avatar of Dangerous-Cloth

Posts: 2066



That would be the first coh game to suffer from brit emplacement cancer from day 1 :P

It would be much wiser to start in marocco and algeria with germans vs usf as base and then add brits and italians in first add on. That way they can maximise sales becouse they cover two main markets on release.


Well the Desert Rats were on the offensive from mid 1942 to 1943 so maybe we could chemo it out lol
17 May 2017, 20:42 PM
#46
avatar of Dangerous-Cloth

Posts: 2066



Except what CoH3 needs and what Relic needs is two different things.

After the DoWIII failure (at least I guess it is a failure) Relic will need cash with little risk, which means as many potential customers as possible.

We're going to see a CoH3 console first DLC platform.


Space marine would give them this income they need.
17 May 2017, 20:45 PM
#47
avatar of Dangerous-Cloth

Posts: 2066

If they want to add dlc, why not add different vehicle and infantry models? You can buy for example a different riflemen or grenadier model or a different Panzer IV model or Tiger model. Some with zimmerich, others not etc. Perhaps a model Tiger H as the standard one and the model E as a buyable one with the different commander cupola. Won't change the values of the tank, just the look of it.

Add skins on top of this and you will have a dlc plan that isn't p2w.
18 May 2017, 02:29 AM
#48
avatar of Mistah_S

Posts: 851 | Subs: 1


Except what CoH3 needs and what Relic needs is two different things.
After the DoWIII failure (at least I guess it is a failure) Relic will need cash with little risk, which means as many potential customers as possible.
We're going to see a CoH3 console first DLC platform.

They tried that with AOEII on console... guess what? It was an utter failure!


Space marine would give them this income they need.

Space Marine was a shit FPS. Gave up after 2 hours.
Original Warhammer 3k DOW on the other hand, I have played the campaign 3 times now.

If they want to add dlc, why not add different vehicle and infantry models? You can buy for example a different riflemen or grenadier model or a different Panzer IV model or Tiger model. Some with zimmerich, others not etc. Perhaps a model Tiger H as the standard one and the model E as a buyable one with the different commander cupola. Won't change the values of the tank, just the look of it.


Yes, thats what a person a few pages ago had said
18 May 2017, 07:36 AM
#49
avatar of Danyek

Posts: 294 | Subs: 1


FYI, on page 23 (SEGA “Road to 2020” business presentation) you can see semi-official confirmation from SEGA that Relic will be working on a COH sequel + maybe a new IP.
http://www.segasammy.co.jp/english/pdf/release/20170515_rt2020_e_final.pdf



European studios -> Total War

Can I believe in Medieval 3? :hyper:
18 May 2017, 10:08 AM
#50
avatar of le_saucisson_masque

Posts: 485 | Subs: 1



Except what CoH3 needs and what Relic needs is two different things.

After the DoWIII failure (at least I guess it is a failure) Relic will need cash with little risk, which means as many potential customers as possible.

We're going to see a CoH3 console first DLC platform.


+1, you got it.
i said the exact same thing in another thread, DOW3 failure is really not a good thing for coh fans.
Sega might have loose money, or at least not earn as much as they wanted too, which in return would reduce their trust in relic capacity.

Which basically means that relic is probably going to reduce drastically their employee/amount of money spent on development, to focus on smaller projects but with more potential income.

like making a strategy game on phone which would use the name of Company of heroes to attract customer, or bring dow3 to console.
13 Jun 2017, 23:32 PM
#51
avatar of SturmtigerCobra
Patrion 310

Posts: 911 | Subs: 11



+1, you got it.
i said the exact same thing in another thread, DoW3 failure is really not a good thing for CoH fans.

I disagree with this part but understand why you believe that. Sometimes bad things have to happen before good things can (for fans).

This was Relic's "Wake Up" call similar to the TW: Rome 2 fan disaster for Creative Assembly.
Go watch this video below (by Arch Warhammer) which are pretty much spot on how SEGA Europe will react to this DoW3 failure.

CoH3 predictions after 20m.

The new Relic team openly confirmed in interviews DoW3 was a game THEY wanted to make (SEGA Europe not so much). SEGA would have preferred a free-to-play MOBA game which was part of the THQ bankruptcy (codename Project Atlas). Relic openly talked about Project Atlas in their recent documentary (DoW2 last stand on steroids). Much of the microtransactions in CoH2 was inspired by FTP Company of Heroes Online and Project Atlas.

Relic developing ‘Atlas’ for release in 2014
https://www.pcgamesn.com/relic-developing-atlas-release-2014

Relic also helped supervise the graphic engine for a big Warhammer MMO project created by Vigil. Warhammer 40,000: Dark Millennium which got canceled due to THQ bankruptcy. This graphic engine was also used in Spacemarine. This engine (not Essence) is now owned by Nordic Games (renamed THQ Nordic).


I suspected Relic wanted to delay the 2017 release date and SEGA said no. Total Warhammer 2 have 3½ months preorder (TW Warhammer 1 had 6 months), DoW3 had less than 2 months.
Moving a scheduled release date is very expensive and Relic underestimated how much time/money needed to complete the game. With all the money SEGA is making from Total Warhammer I doubt they wanted DoW3 to be terrible for fans.
With low player activity and 53% user reviews on Steam (only 42% positive the recent month), this game is dead to SEGA compared to CoH3 and Total Warhammer. Sure steam reviews are biased but they do represent the Warhammer community which SEGA takes very serious because of the big Total Warhammer IP.

DoW3 failed because it was not a game made for DoW fans but Relic trying to compete directly with Blizzards wider audience which was pretty narrow-minded and foolish. Hiring pro Blizzard fan @iNcontroLTV to stream DoW3, my god what was Relic thinking?
I can almost guarantee CoH3 will be a game made for LOYAL CoH2/CoH1 fans, not Blizzard fans.
With CoH3 we can also expect more Relic support to loyal modders/community content creators.

This SEGA Europe video below confirms what I have previously said about new CoH modding tools/new SEGA business plan for CoH and Total War/Endless Space etc.. There is no way SEGA would buy Amplitude if they were not interested in more community interactions (look up Amplitude business plan, games2gether). This is what SEGA want for future CoH games. Well before CoH3, we can expect a CoH2 modding update to help preserve its longevity. Notice how John Clark mention RTS games (community maps). Over the past few years, Creative Assembly also has hired Total Wars modders and community content creators. As an example you had CA hiring TW community member Darren. Darren has previous also made youtube content for CoH2.
John Clark - (SVP Commercial Publishing) SEGA
14 Jun 2017, 00:49 AM
#52
avatar of Vuther
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 3103 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post18 May 2017, 07:36 AMDanyek


European studios -> Total War

Can I believe in Medieval 3? :hyper:

I've been paying attention to TW at the time and I can say they've said it's not that, I'm afraid. They're working on Total Warhammer 2, some sort of campaign DLC for Rome II or Attila, a smaller currently-only-this-is-known standalone game a la Fall of the Samurai, and a big historical game that's not Medieval 3 but a historical period they have never done before.
14 Jun 2017, 01:50 AM
#53
avatar of __deleted__

Posts: 236

I personally think coh3 should continue a focus on the eastern Front. I mean comon coh2 only covered a small segment of the front. there's literally 100s of different units not in the game currently and events not covered in the game and by far plenty of content to make coh 3 4 and 5 etc.

Also the next coh should bring a more focus on team games rather than 1v1s if they're smart. Competitive gaming doesn't have to center around single commanders.
14 Jun 2017, 03:50 AM
#54
avatar of Tobis
Senior Strategist Badge
Donator 11

Posts: 2306 | Subs: 4

I personally think coh3 should continue a focus on the eastern Front. I mean comon coh2 only covered a small segment of the front. there's literally 100s of different units not in the game currently and events not covered in the game and by far plenty of content to make coh 3 4 and 5 etc.

Also the next coh should bring a more focus on team games rather than 1v1s if they're smart. Competitive gaming doesn't have to center around single commanders.


I can guarantee you they will not focus on the Eastern Front again. They will want some sort of hook to differentiate it from the other games, and setting is the easiest way to change that.

If I had to guess it will either be USA vs Japan, or Brits vs Germans in Africa. The second one makes the most sense, they could easily churn out an expansion for that with USA vs Italy.
14 Jun 2017, 04:01 AM
#55
avatar of Bulgakov

Posts: 987

jump backJump back to quoted post16 May 2017, 20:17 PMTobis
What CoH3 needs to change from co2:


- Hotkeys FFS


You mean HOTCHKISS ffs!!!
14 Jun 2017, 06:58 AM
#56
avatar of RealisticCOH

Posts: 1

I think the next CoH version needs some important improvements

1/ Animations combat of the soldiers more realistic

2/ Increase combat range and views of all units at least triple compared to the current CoH2

3/ The camera viewing is higher to see the broader battlefield
14 Jun 2017, 07:33 AM
#57
avatar of AceOfTitanium

Posts: 162

It would be cool if they implemented a system to replace the commander system in coh2, something like:
-The player has a huge set of abilities and special units (call in's in coh2) and each of these, based on their performance, would cost "command points" and the player is given x command points to create their own "commander". This would be pretty neat and we would see everytime a different combo of abilities and special units.

I just hope that if a coh3 is released it is in a ww2 setting and they wont be as greedy as they were with coh2 where they fractioned as much as possible the game to produce as much dlc as possible. Also, please get rid of intel bulletins. :>
14 Jun 2017, 08:21 AM
#58
avatar of Crecer13

Posts: 2069 | Subs: 2

It would be cool if they implemented a system to replace the commander system in coh2, something like:
-The player has a huge set of abilities and special units (call in's in coh2) and each of these, based on their performance, would cost "command points" and the player is given x command points to create their own "commander". This would be pretty neat and we would see everytime a different combo of abilities and special units.

I just hope that if a coh3 is released it is in a ww2 setting and they wont be as greedy as they were with coh2 where they fractioned as much as possible the game to produce as much dlc as possible. Also, please get rid of intel bulletins. :>


Recalls Supreme Commander 2. There was a similar system.
I would not be opposed to the alternative early (1945 - 1965) Cold War Conflict.
14 Jun 2017, 08:22 AM
#59
avatar of Prostruppen Ready

Posts: 23

By the way, CA has said that they aren't planning to do a 3rd medieval on their subreddit.




I suspected Relic wanted to delay the 2017 release date and SEGA said no. Total Warhammer 2 have 3½ months preorder (TW Warhammer 1 had 6 months), DoW3 had less than 2 months.
Moving a scheduled release date is very expensive and Relic underestimated how much time/money needed to complete the game. With all the money SEGA is making from Total Warhammer I doubt they wanted DoW3 to be terrible for fans.
With low player activity and 53% user reviews on Steam (only 42% positive the recent month), this game is dead to SEGA compared to CoH3 and Total Warhammer. Sure steam reviews are biased but they do represent the Warhammer community which SEGA takes very serious because of the big Total Warhammer IP.


The Warhammer fantasy IP is completely different from the much more popular 40K IP and as such has a different fanbase. If anything GW tried to cash in on the Total warhammer success by linking to their mini pages selling things from the AoS IP.

DoW3 failed because it was not a game made for DoW fans but Relic trying to compete directly with Blizzards wider audience which was pretty narrow-minded and foolish. Hiring pro Blizzard fan @iNcontroLTV to stream DoW3, my god what was Relic thinking?
How do I explain this. Incontrol was let go by Evil geniuses last year because Starcraft 2 isn't that big of an esport anymore and InControl wasn't a pro player anymore. At the same time he largely plays strategy games and competes in Warhammer 40k tournaments. As far as any online personality goes he is a pretty good fit for the series.

Also a clarification is needed for what you mean by DoW fans. The first two games play nearly completely differently in terms of gameplay and scale. Dawn of war 2 released with pretty polarised opinion and it was only after Retribution and the Last Stand mode that that the game began to carve it's own niche in the market. What saved the game was the non traditional RTS campaign which provided tons of content.


I can almost guarantee CoH3 will be a game made for LOYAL CoH2/CoH1 fans, not Blizzard fans.
With CoH3 we can also expect more Relic support to loyal modders/community content creators.

Dawn of war 3 has released with map support right from start. As far as official support goes it's a pretty nice standard to start your game. Time will tell if Relic will allow for total war levels of mod support or even that of dawn of war 1 levels.


This SEGA Europe video below confirms what I have previously said about new CoH modding tools/new SEGA business plan for CoH and Total War/Endless Space etc.. There is no way SEGA would buy Amplitude if they were not interested in more community interactions (look up Amplitude business plan, games2gether). This is what SEGA want for future CoH games. Well before CoH3, we can expect a CoH2 modding update to help preserve its longevity. Notice how John Clark mention RTS games (community maps). Over the past few years, Creative Assembly also has hired Total Wars modders and community content creators. As an example you had CA hiring TW community member Darren. Darren has previous also made youtube content for CoH2.

A couple of things about total war. CA has been hiring modders for a VERY long time. Their DLC content team is led by Jack Lusted, who was a pretty big modder during medieval 2. He made several AI improvements and a vanilla plus mod called Lands to Conquer http://www.twcenter.net/wiki/Lands_to_Conquer

The mod was interesting because the mini campaigns Jack came up with were more focused on mechanics than later total war total conversions and didn't add complex systems that would hinder turn times. His work on the campaign AI would be the basis of nearly every other campaign AI that would be integrated into Medieval 2 total war mods.

CA did the same with mitch, who led the modding team for the Great War mod for napoleon total war which provided a pretty different gameplay experience from the base game.

Relic makes RTS games with a very set formula that doesn't have the open endedness of total war games.
14 Jun 2017, 09:34 AM
#60
avatar of Eupolemos
Donator 33

Posts: 368

Well, if Relic is indeed scrambling for CoH3 in an honest fashion (as in catering to the CoH1&2 fans), I guess this is the right time to present some heartfelt, constructive suggestions :)

Since the business model has been the bane of CoH2, it's my main focus point.

a) Make a competitive scene
- The community has shown itself willing to crowdfund. The game is an audience-pleaser. Believe in this and make a Patreon-like system where the player-audience can pay-per-month for mini-tourneys linked to leaderboards. Quarterly and yearly tourneys. Keep some percentage of the money for yourself, enough that this tourney-system isn't a company bore to keep running but actually worth investing some time in.

b) Sell Expensive Skins
- Make them good. Sell them at stupid prices, but with a fixed percentage going to the tourneys. Also, sell voice-acting. Native voice packages would be awesome. Bring back my German voice-actor grenadier, he was awesome. Let me buy him, even.

c) Pick The Winners (game-modes)
- Sure, you can have all kinds of game-modes, but only a few are competitive and supported as such. In team games, each side must play the same faction if in competitive mode. Yes, it is not as flashy, but it drastically cuts down on balance pitfalls.

d) Make A Campaign Modding Platform
- I don't know why this isn't done more in RTS-games, it seems like a no-brainer to me. Make a tool that let us make maps and missions with slides in between, telling a story, perhaps even a mission briefing. Audience should expand, since the compstompin' campaign customers get a really bad deal as it is now.
Retain the right to grab a campaign, polish it and voice it and sell it as curated content.

Now The Negatives (sorry)
- Listen to the voice-acting in CoH1 and CoH2. CoH2, especially the German commanders, sounds like grandpa bringing me cookies. Now compare it to the CoH1 Sherman voice-acting. CoH2 German voice-acting actively ruins the game for me.
- Don't sell Commanders. Make the game and command-point choices tight as in CoH1.
- Make sure the players develop and change the meta, not something you're selling.
- Kill off the encampment factions. itsnotgoingtohappen.jpg
- You can't do both competitive and not-competitive at different times. You can't sell flavour-of-the-month units. You can't. I don't trust Relic even a little bit anymore and if I think I might smell the tiniest of whiffs of pay-to-win, I will be a dedicated enemy of your company and game. If the suggestions above isn't enough to make you and investors believe in profit, find more non-p2w alternatives. You just can't do both and hope to sell it to me.


Thank you for reading this :)
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