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Infiltration units needs a change

17 Apr 2017, 16:37 PM
#1
avatar of ZaneyZap

Posts: 57

Infiltration units needs a change, and by infiltration units I mean units that can instantly spawn from an empty garrison.

My reason for wanting a change is:
  • I want to give the opponent better conditions to react to infiltration units when they spawn from a building
  • I want it to be riskier for players to deploy infiltration units from a building


Infiltration units spawn instantly from buildings, leaving the opponent with no time to react when they do spawn in the midst of battle. The infiltration units can quickly take out snipers, weapon teams, AT-Guns or provide vision for off map artillery etc. with a 1-click ability that gives the opponent no warning, unlike other abilities such as paratroopers who at least take some time before they land on the ground.

I have done a brainstorm in order to come up with a couple of suggestions to rework infiltration units
note they are not necessarily meant to be implemented all at once

Map alert ping
if the enemy deploys infiltration units within the players field of view, the player is alerted to their presence via a ping on the minimap.
This gives the player a better chance to react to the infiltration unit and he makes it a little more riskier for the opponent to deploy the infiltration units to the battlefield.

Weapons on cooldown
The infiltration unit spawn instantly but their weapons are on cooldown for a brief moment.
again helping the player to react but also forces the opponent to be more careful when deploying the units, because they can no longer spawn and go guns blazing from the get go.

delayed spawn
The player can no longer instantly deploy Infiltration units if the garrison is in enemy territorry/or within the enemy's field of vision. Instead there will be a delay before they spawn.

Flares
A flare will be fired above the building where the infiltration unit is "hiding". once the flare has been fired, the infiltration unit spawns.

Today there are already a few things you can do to defend yourself against infiltration units
  • You can burn/destroy any potential building they can spawn from
  • you can wire off the doors
  • garrison your own troops in the buildings
  • Plant mines in front of the doors


While these countermeasures works, they are time consuming and not all of the countermeasures are ideal or offer a permanent solution.

Please feel free to share your thoughts :)
17 Apr 2017, 16:48 PM
#2
avatar of DonnieChan

Posts: 1270 | Subs: 1

only thing that's broken is the house commando gammon bomb.
just let it start with the cooldown. rest is fine
17 Apr 2017, 17:59 PM
#3
avatar of EtherealDragon

Posts: 1017

Yeah, I'd say at long as Grenades are on Cooldown at Spawn (and Snares in the case of AT Partisons) then Infiltration Units are mostly fine. I'd also like to see all Engineer units get a "Demolish Building" ability where you can set a timed demo for munitions cost and deny spawn points without haven't to resort to cumbersome tank crushing or other methods currently used to destroy garrisons.
17 Apr 2017, 18:37 PM
#4
avatar of ShadowLinkX37
Referee Badge

Posts: 538


Map alert ping
if the enemy deploys infiltration units within the players field of view, the player is alerted to their presence via a ping on the minimap.
This gives the player a better chance to react to the infiltration unit and he makes it a little more riskier for the opponent to deploy the infiltration units to the battlefield.


This will result in reactionary grenades on the infiltration units. Infiltration units will be wiped immediatly due to large clumping and % of wipe goes up with more powerful grenades.
17 Apr 2017, 19:02 PM
#5
avatar of Imagelessbean
Senior Strategist Badge

Posts: 1585 | Subs: 1

One infiltration unit, Stromtroopers are fine. I think also that Jaegers are also ok, but their nades start on cool down. All the other units are completely ridiculous in some way.

Partisans getting nades and a shrek on spawn, laughable.
Falls getting FG42's, a nade, a faust, and if they get vet 1 before they retreat another nade, stupid.
Commandoes getting the satchel charge, but with a short fuse on spawn? Stupid.

Requiring units to arrive and either act like infiltration units, decap, harass, or wait and upgrade their weapons would go a long way to helping these units.

Partisans AT nades should be on cool down as well as Commandoes.
17 Apr 2017, 22:47 PM
#6
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 4876 | Subs: 2

A)Most simple idea is to make all of their abilities start on cd.

B)On top of idea A, what about making them start with "vanilla" (bolt/semi auto action rifles) weapons and force them to upgrade for 0muni to their stock weapons. Make it takes 15s/30s.
17 Apr 2017, 23:00 PM
#7
avatar of zerocoh

Posts: 608

ALL infiltration units are bullshit, ESPECIALLY the OKW ones that comes with insanely broken abilities.

We had this thread a few months ago. The best solution is apply a debuff on the unit when they spawn. Movement slow and half accuracy for 5~7 seconds should do the trick
18 Apr 2017, 00:16 AM
#8
avatar of jacksank2

Posts: 34

Map alert ping+flares wouldn't be fair, but the cd on weapons+abilities is a thing relic needs to add to the game.
18 Apr 2017, 00:26 AM
#9
avatar of LoopDloop

Posts: 1239

A)Most simple idea is to make all of their abilities start on cd.

B)On top of idea A, what about making them start with "vanilla" (bolt/semi auto action rifles) weapons and force them to upgrade for 0muni to their stock weapons. Make it takes 15s/30s.

That's an idea. They're really good at cheesily killing snipers though, even on retreat (especially falls and commandos). I think my snipers never live past ten minutes against people using Luftwaffe or scavenge lol.
18 Apr 2017, 01:53 AM
#10
avatar of William Christensen

Posts: 396


B)On top of idea A, what about making them start with "vanilla" (bolt/semi auto action rifles) weapons and force them to upgrade for 0muni to their stock weapons. Make it takes 15s/30s.


This is basically why Stormtroopers and to some extend, JLI, are fine as Infiltration Units: Their start-off DPS are rather low. Unlike Commandos and Fallschirmjager, they get extremely good close-range DPS weapons (Stens, FG42s) that since most support weapons need to be place close to building for protection and cover, they just got immediately shreded by these two. Make them come out with their respective bolt-action rifle (Kar98k for Falls, Lee Enfield for Commandos, maybe even full-on Kar98k for JLI as well) but to be honest, it should cost some MU to upgrade to their original weapons (Probably 50MU - 100MU). ‎
18 Apr 2017, 02:04 AM
#11
avatar of ZombiFrancis

Posts: 2030 | Subs: 1


maybe even full-on Kar98k for JLI as well) but to be honest, it should cost some MU to upgrade to their original weapons (Probably 50MU - 100MU). ‎


Three of the JLI squad members are already carrying the Grenadier Kar98k. Only the fourth is carrying the g43 that snipes wounded models.
18 Apr 2017, 02:08 AM
#12
avatar of Nano

Posts: 212

If you want the spawn in units to not come with their weapons and cost munitions to add it, you would need to decrease their initial cost.

If not the units would never show up in games.
18 Apr 2017, 02:16 AM
#13
avatar of voltardark

Posts: 924 | Subs: 1

A)Most simple idea is to make all of their abilities start on cd.

B)On top of idea A, what about making them start with "vanilla" (bolt/semi auto action rifles) weapons and force them to upgrade for 0muni to their stock weapons. Make it takes 15s/30s.


Nice ideas !
18 Apr 2017, 02:22 AM
#14
avatar of zerocoh

Posts: 608

jump backJump back to quoted post18 Apr 2017, 02:08 AMNano
If you want the spawn in units to not come with their weapons and cost munitions to add it, you would need to decrease their initial cost.

If not the units would never show up in games.



great idea, as if people didn't spammed falls/JLI/commandos enough...
18 Apr 2017, 02:26 AM
#15
avatar of Nano

Posts: 212

jump backJump back to quoted post18 Apr 2017, 02:22 AMzerocoh



great idea, as if people didn't spammed falls/JLI/commandos enough...


If they spawned with out weapons, and were still as expensive as they are, people just wouldn't buy them. You don't want to nerf units to the point where people don't want to use them any more (R.I.P IS2). You need to make them balanced as best you can.
18 Apr 2017, 03:10 AM
#16
avatar of William Christensen

Posts: 396



Three of the JLI squad members are already carrying the Grenadier Kar98k. Only the fourth is carrying the g43 that snipes wounded models.


No... Last time I checked, only 1 with Kar98K, 2 with non-scoped G43s and 1 with Scoped G43 (The one that snipe wounded targets). Consider the fact that 2 G43 cost 45 MU (Based on the Wehrmacht's JLI package), this guy's package would cost around 70 - 75 MU (If we take each non-scoped G43 cost 22.5 MU).‎
18 Apr 2017, 04:02 AM
#17
avatar of ZombiFrancis

Posts: 2030 | Subs: 1



No... Last time I checked, only 1 with Kar98K, 2 with non-scoped G43s and 1 with Scoped G43 (The one that snipe wounded targets). Consider the fact that 2 G43 cost 45 MU (Based on the Wehrmacht's JLI package), this guy's package would cost around 70 - 75 MU (If we take each non-scoped G43 cost 22.5 MU).‎


Ah you are correct, thanks for the correction.

Had to check and confirm for myself. :D
18 Apr 2017, 07:42 AM
#18
avatar of Sandreas

Posts: 1146

only thing that's broken is the house commando gammon bomb.
just let it start with the cooldown. rest is fine


Yeah, the Bundle grenade from the Falls is perfectly fine. Only the gammon bomb is broken...

18 Apr 2017, 08:25 AM
#19
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 1264



No... Last time I checked, only 1 with Kar98K, 2 with non-scoped G43s and 1 with Scoped G43 (The one that snipe wounded targets). Consider the fact that 2 G43 cost 45 MU (Based on the Wehrmacht's JLI package), this guy's package would cost around 70 - 75 MU (If we take each non-scoped G43 cost 22.5 MU).‎

Actually No. JLI come with 3x 98k, 1 scoped 1x G43
18 Apr 2017, 08:55 AM
#20
avatar of peruci

Posts: 217

The infiltration mechanic is one of the most stupid ideas Relic has ever come up with (and there have been quite a few). I mean, it completely breaks down the flow of the game and can cause a mass retreat, even though your army was set up perfectly to hold the frontline. It negates the core of the game.

I'm actually surprised people are suggesting changes and tweaks to this mechanic. I think it should be out of the game completely.

Make all of these units just come off map like the rest?:huhsign:
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