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Contest: New Maxim vet1 ability

2 Apr 2017, 01:45 AM
#41
avatar of ferwiner
Donator 11

Posts: 2885

As the supression of maxim has been absolutely butchered in the notes, I would be for a muni costing supression increase ability. It should be effectively better than current maxim during that ability but can deal less damage.

Another idea would be a toggle between supression and damage mode - like shermans AP/HE rounds. That way you could use maxim as a defencive supression platform with little damage or change it into "assault mg" and boost its damage loosing most (all?) supression.

I would also support the ideas connected to maxims water cooled nature like ability that allows it to shoot constantly, not in burst for some time, or a centaur-like sweep. These abilities also should have some kind of drawback - for example the sweep could supress everything in the angle of fire but without damage and pin.
2 Apr 2017, 02:23 AM
#42
avatar of Cafo

Posts: 245

10 muni they setup instantly and instant pin, so it would be only slightly better lasts the duration of the game.
2 Apr 2017, 06:33 AM
#43
avatar of mycalliope

Posts: 721

vet 1 introduces a toggle :-

takes some time to set up on toggle

change between 90 degree arc and low suppresion vs 60 degree arc and high suppression and lower sight
2 Apr 2017, 06:38 AM
#44
avatar of KingAnj

Posts: 75

"Inspire Courage"
Execute one man to inspire the rest. The targeted [Maxim-conscript] model is killed, increasing the damage of its squad by 100% for 15 seconds. Stops an in-progress retreat, and the unit cannot retreat for the duration of the buff. 50 second cooldown. (Bonus Flavor, one of the models is a 'ranking officer')
http://dow.wikia.com/wiki/Retribution/Inspire_Courage

-or, to not plagiarize, yuk yuk yuk-


Since it is a SUPPORT weapon, it should support Cons/Penals/Shocks/Guards:
https://youtu.be/i8IAuli2PDU?t=130

"No Mercy for Cowards!"
30 Muni
Increased [X]% rate of fire (or Damage?) for maxim based on [Cap of 1 to 3 infantry units; 1 unit gives lowest buff, 2 units gives a stronger buff and max of 3 units give the largest buff] [X] meters around maxim. This does not include support weapons (maxims, mortars, AT-guns).
Units that were within [X] meters/ contributed to this, get ['Oorah']% move speed increase for ['Oorah'] duration. After duration, get [X]% received accuracy debuff for [X] duration. 50 second cooldown.

[X] = a balanced number
2 Apr 2017, 07:18 AM
#45
avatar of capiqua
Senior Mapmaker Badge

Posts: 984 | Subs: 2


Icons_abilities_ability_raid

Vet1 "Fast Capture"
2 Apr 2017, 09:30 AM
#46
avatar of le_saucisson_masque

Posts: 485 | Subs: 1


Icons_abilities_ability_raid

Vet1 "Fast Capture"


you must be joking.

they are trying to reduce maxim spam and you propose a vet1 ability to make them capture faster territory when it should be the opposite :facepalm:
nee
2 Apr 2017, 09:32 AM
#47
avatar of nee

Posts: 1216

Vet1: Trip-wire flares.





;p
2 Apr 2017, 09:51 AM
#48
avatar of Osinyagov
Senior Modmaker Badge

Posts: 1377

What if Maxim get abillity like Luchs or UC? When its fire blindly on the target, suppressing infantry in the area, and with reduced damage. And this abillity cost ammo of course.
Maxim is suppressing unit, his vet 1 abillity need to help to suppressing enemy infantry.
2 Apr 2017, 10:18 AM
#49
avatar of __deleted__

Posts: 4314 | Subs: 7

Focused fire:

Maxim can switch between supressive and focused fire.

In Focused fire maxim will fire in small bursts, not supressing enemy infantry but dealing increased damage to them.

Switching can cost munnition/be free, but it must be prohibited while in combat, so maxims cannot supress and then deal tremderous damage and vice versa.


By this vet 1 ability, maxim can act both as supression platform and as DPS platform. Giving maxim utility to form high DPS platform will give soviets ability to deal some damag to axis squads and also bleed OKW late game infantry (instaed of just supressing blobs without any bleed).

Unload time can be increased while in focused fire mode if needed.


What do you think about focused fire ? Smith ?


EDIT: Ferwiner already suggested this change, nevermind :D
2 Apr 2017, 10:57 AM
#50
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13178 | Subs: 1

Maybe try to increase the synergy of Maxims and conscript a bit so that this units work better together:

Maxim at vet 1 could have a MU ability that would give (even a passive one) some of the following bonuses to conscript scaling with the veterancy of the maxim:

Reduce throw time for Molotov
Increase ability range for Molotov
Increase ability range for AT grenade
Conscript now ignore some (5%/10%/15%?) of the defensive bonuses of suppressed/pinned infantry (similar to Luch)
Conscript now add suppression to enemy units helping maxim to suppress faster
2 Apr 2017, 11:00 AM
#51
avatar of TickTack

Posts: 570

Spray 'n Pray
Maxim gets a burst of fire (5 seconds, 30 muni) that simulates the Propaganda leaflet effects, causing extra suppression or retreat.

This is a good idea because:
1. Does nothing against axis vehicles
2. Doesn't kill squads, just pushes them away so they form up for a flank or new push
3. Gives some suppression capability back to SU but for a price in muni
2 Apr 2017, 11:53 AM
#52
avatar of drChengele
Patrion 14

Posts: 639 | Subs: 1

I am in favour of a passive non-stackable aura buff to conscripts or infantry within a relatively wide radius. Who ever thought of that, give yourself a pat on the back.

This is I feel the most in line with what CoH2 strives to be: combined arms. It will make assaulting supported maxim positions more dangerous. Once you have a Maxim, a player faced with the choice of spending his next 250ish manpower will now have an actual bona-fide reason to click the conscript button instead. The more Maxims you have the more incentive to build conscripts. The more conscripts you have, the more incentive to build a Maxim to support them. This is spam discouragement and combined arms in the purest form.

Also, since the Maxim now has the same set up as the MG42, it loses its offensive flavour almost completely. There are very few incentives / possibilities to perform OFFENSIVE combined arms maneuvers before late-game, and I feel this would be a unique opportunity for just that, a Maxim supporting conscripts on attack. This is why one of the bonuses provided should be supression resistance. The human waves of combined arms are just as good a thematic fit as the Maxim's water cooler, and a better game mechanics fit, IMO.

Wouldn't this just make cons+maxim spam a strategy, rather than the maxim spam? Maybe it would, but I'd love to find out. With the new setup time, this proposed blob would no longer be nearly as mobile, which is a huge thing for any blob strat.

Wouldn't it make the Maxim+conscript combo too powerful on the defense? I dunno, that's 500 manpower and 2 units tied down to a specific spot, it should be pretty resilient.

A temporary ammo-based boost to some stat based on Maxim's water-cooling nature is also good. I mean, "use ammo to have a temporary flat increase to some numbers" is a long-standing CoH tradition (see: HVAP on the Jackson), but it is also lazy game design. But I feel a Maxim should have sufficient damage/supression at vet0, and not wait for vet1 to really shine. Still, better than sprint.
2 Apr 2017, 12:14 PM
#53
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13178 | Subs: 1

Other approachs:
1)vet 1 allows maxim to be refitted to DSHK (for some MP cost), unit has to be removed from the field similar to USF refit but Dshk come on the field.

Maxim could now perform worse at start making maxim less viable but be able to become better once vetted.

2) Vet 1 allows Maxim to stay longer on the field via heal mechanism, since soviets are one of the few faction with trouble healing on the field.
Option:
When merged with conscripts squad heals for 10/20/30 HP per entity
Passive healing getting better with veterancy
Self Med kit type heal
2 Apr 2017, 12:32 PM
#54
avatar of le_saucisson_masque

Posts: 485 | Subs: 1

+1 to drChengele & Vipper.

Want less maxim spam and make people use more conscript ? increase the synergy between these units by giving a buff to nearby conscript units or something like that.
2 Apr 2017, 12:36 PM
#55
avatar of Dangerous-Cloth

Posts: 2066

Why does vet 1 have to be an unique ability anyway? UKF has a lot of unique abilities for example, but most of them don`t work since they are `unique` just for the purpose of being `unique`

My suggestions would be:

1. Armored piercing rounds for a duration of 30 seconds costing the same as on the MG42. Reload required to get the rounds as soon as the ability is toggled just like the MG42 has. Damage wise perhaps a bit lower than the mg42, since people tend to spam the maxim and probably will continue to do so.

2. Instead of giving the maxim a standard larger cone of fire, why not make it so that this is tied into vet. This would make the maxim more interesting and it would still be ´unique´. I don´t know if this is possible though.
2 Apr 2017, 12:42 PM
#56
avatar of Cafo

Posts: 245

20 muni Mikhailov drinks his vodka and picks up the maxim and hipfires sprays , the mg no longer sets up and you ran around suppressing people like a vet 5 ober
2 Apr 2017, 12:47 PM
#57
avatar of ferwiner
Donator 11

Posts: 2885

Focused fire:

Maxim can switch between supressive and focused fire.

In Focused fire maxim will fire in small bursts, not supressing enemy infantry but dealing increased damage to them.

Switching can cost munnition/be free, but it must be prohibited while in combat, so maxims cannot supress and then deal tremderous damage and vice versa.


By this vet 1 ability, maxim can act both as supression platform and as DPS platform. Giving maxim utility to form high DPS platform will give soviets ability to deal some damag to axis squads and also bleed OKW late game infantry (instaed of just supressing blobs without any bleed).

Unload time can be increased while in focused fire mode if needed.


What do you think about focused fire ? Smith ?


EDIT: Ferwiner already suggested this change, nevermind :D


I did, but its good to know that I'm not the only one who would like such ability. And I think your post describes it in more detail which obviously helps the couse :P
2 Apr 2017, 12:47 PM
#58
avatar of Fluffi

Posts: 211

Gosh, Ostheer and Soviets have so many uninspired vet 1 abilites, because Relic insisted on giving every unit a vet1 abilty. USF, OKW and Brits do not have this.

I suggest to slowly bring Ostheer and Soviets in line with the newer factions veterancy-wise, meaning that the most uninspired vet1 abilites should be removed in favor of creative passive abilities (example of creative passive is the retreat smoke grenade someone mentioned earlier)
2 Apr 2017, 15:09 PM
#59
avatar of ZombiFrancis

Posts: 2742

Vet 1 abilities are kind of annoying IMO.

They constrain all vet bonuses to just vet 2 and vet 3, which makes vet feel clunky and sudden. "Just got to get to vet 2" has been a problem for a ton of units in this game, and just this last patch featured spreading out vet 2 and vet 3 bonuses into vet 1 and 2 respectively.

No reason why this shouldn't be the case for the Maxim.
3 Apr 2017, 07:40 AM
#60
avatar of Felinewolfie

Posts: 867 | Subs: 5

jump backJump back to quoted post2 Apr 2017, 12:47 PMFluffi
Gosh, Ostheer and Soviets have so many uninspired vet 1 abilites, because Relic insisted on giving every unit a vet1 abilty. USF, OKW and Brits do not have this.

I suggest to slowly bring Ostheer and Soviets in line with the newer factions veterancy-wise, meaning that the most uninspired vet1 abilites should be removed in favor of creative passive abilities (example of creative passive is the retreat smoke grenade someone mentioned earlier)

======
- USF : Riflemen : vet1 : Anti tank rifle grenade.
Sherman : vet1 : Radio Net
Jackson : vet1 : APBC ammo
etc
- OKW : Sturmpioneer : Vet1 : drops 3x medpacks (moved to vet 0 by last patch)
: Blitzkrieg, or it's equivalent.

- Brits : Vickers : vet1 : +300% when garissonned.
: Cromwell: vet1 : Smoke rounds
: Boys Mk1 sniper : vet1 : Critical hit on armored unit.

USF, OKW and Brits have them too.
- Activated abilities show skill. Otherwise is just an A-move fest.

Scout sniper with 1 rifle is too weak, too hard to vet.
conscript vet1 : really?
T34/76 / T34/85 : vet1 : Capture terrain : really?
IS-2 : vet1 : capture terrain : @#$(*!
KV-1, KV-8, KV-2 : vet1 : Capture terrain : @(*@#!!@(! !!!

==================
- I liked both the water-cooled abilities and the conscript-support aspect.
*THAT* would mitigate Maxim spam a lot *AND* make Penals useful for once.

also take this opportunity to swap penal and conscript models around and rename penals
to strelski. Penal models look a LOT more like Conscripts. (This is not an ability swap,
just that green units looking like veterans, and elite units looking like beggars is odd).


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