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M42 change ideas - Winter Patch 1.2 / 1.3 / 1.4

13 Dec 2016, 20:46 PM
#21
avatar of Mistah_S

Posts: 851 | Subs: 1

My proposition:
I smoked some stuff and thought I should post
What do you think guys?

OP, srsly?
You want an AT gun in tier 1 that has both AI and AT?

I think current M-42 is ok.
Nice RoF, low damage, good vs light vehicles.

For late-game purpuse it might see some vet ability which increases damage/penetration for XX period of time.

+1

Can we actually try new penals first and then start discussing around lil at gun ?

Tier1 was never meant to have AT gun. Its mobile tier that give you good AI and early game pressure so you can field tanks on your own as counters to enemy tanks.

+1.
Have tried, didnt like, dont want to see PTRS penals


Wrong. Conspam gives far better early game pressure than T1 and Penals. Only thing that I can see giving good early pressure is Conspam + quick m3 Clown car.

Wut?
Conspam is countered by 2 MG's.
Said 2 MG's get raped by clown car strafing and penal or engy flamer

I see this modding balance thing going the wrong way lol

+1
It's already turning into a clusterf*ck

Let's not get confused though. Soviets need nerfs, not buffs and core design circumvention.
Penals need nerfs overall, not buffs.
The M42 is a highly valuable tool and performs right against its intended targets.

+1 on all sentences

T70 gun performance.
Raketen garrison ability.
Possibly canister round, mentioned above me.
As said in the other topic about the M42.

RIP historical accuracy... No AT gun in the world can fire canister shot...
13 Dec 2016, 20:52 PM
#22
avatar of ferwiner
Donator 11

Posts: 2885


OP, srsly?
You want an AT gun in tier 1 that has both AI and AT?


+1


+1.
Have tried, didnt like, dont want to see PTRS penals


Wut?
Conspam is countered by 2 MG's.
Said 2 MG's get raped by clown car strafing and penal or engy flamer


+1
It's already turning into a clusterf*ck


+1 on all sentences


RIP historical accuracy... No AT gun in the world can fire canister shot...


No AT gun in the world is also delivered to the front with AT ammo only... The other AT guns are specialised and powerful units already so there is no need for them to have AI shells but the one that is aimed to be terrible against tanks, yet still be build, could get some AI love.
13 Dec 2016, 21:14 PM
#23
avatar of __deleted__

Posts: 4314 | Subs: 7



+1.
Have tried, didnt like, dont want to see PTRS penals



Sorry, but modders didn´t finished that idea, they want to implement good AI for penals first. Right now tier1 is so inefficient with or without penals with or without m42. There is no particular reason why you want to build little bit stronger yet expensive cons and shitty AT gun when you can have cons, maxims and good AT gun
13 Dec 2016, 21:15 PM
#24
avatar of ferwiner
Donator 11

Posts: 2885



Sorry, but modders didn´t finished that idea, they want to implement good AI for penals first. Right now tier1 is so inefficient with or without penals with or without m42. There is no particular reason why you want to build little bit stronger yet expensive cons and shitty AT gun when you can have cons, maxims and good AT gun


Then let's make the AT gun different, instead of shitty.
13 Dec 2016, 21:29 PM
#25
avatar of Mr. Someguy

Posts: 4928

Penetration: 140 / 120 / 100
Damage: 120
Ability to Retreat
Rapid Movement at Vet 1
50% deflection damage at Vet 3


Somewhat inspired by the Puma's gun.
13 Dec 2016, 21:41 PM
#26
avatar of FalseAlarm

Posts: 182

Permanently Banned
Penetration: 140 / 120 / 100
Damage: 120
Ability to Retreat
Rapid Movement at Vet 1
50% deflection damage at Vet 3


Somewhat inspired by the Puma's gun.


And COST? Talk to me.
13 Dec 2016, 21:44 PM
#27
avatar of ferwiner
Donator 11

Posts: 2885

Penetration: 140 / 120 / 100
Damage: 120
Ability to Retreat
Rapid Movement at Vet 1
50% deflection damage at Vet 3


Somewhat inspired by the Puma's gun.


Isn't it better than zis-3 though?
13 Dec 2016, 21:58 PM
#28
avatar of miragefla
Developer Relic Badge

Posts: 1304 | Subs: 13

Not sure if the M42 can be touched due to its odd position in doctrines but if I were to modify it. Cheap enough to deploy multiple vs lights and mediums and annoying as heck to deal with due to cloak and might do surprising damage depending how the ambush boost RNG treats you.

-Crews can now cloak the gun with 25% reduced speed.
-Can retreat.
-Gains 100% increase to penetration when firing its first shot from camouflage with 25% increased accuracy.
-Cost from 200 to 220.
-Can now be suppressed.
-Penetration from 100/80/60 to 120/105/90
-Veterancy 1 Tracking Replaced with Canister Shot

13 Dec 2016, 21:59 PM
#29
avatar of Budwise
Admin Red  Badge
Donator 11

Posts: 2075 | Subs: 2

Why is access to one of the better AT guns in the game at T2 not enough? Please just stop this agenda of giving Soviets more and more AT.

I really feel like you guys are just f-ing with stuff just to f with stuff.
13 Dec 2016, 22:06 PM
#30
avatar of TheSleep3r

Posts: 670

jump backJump back to quoted post13 Dec 2016, 21:59 PMBudwise
Why is access to one of the better AT guns in the game at T2 not enough? Please just stop this agenda of giving Soviets more and more AT.

I really feel like you guys are just f-ing with stuff just to f with stuff.


Aside from saving the M-42 from the UP abyss, the whole thing is about not letting the horrible idea of PTRS penals (at least for now, without said AI upgrade) to happen
13 Dec 2016, 22:09 PM
#31
avatar of ferwiner
Donator 11

Posts: 2885

jump backJump back to quoted post13 Dec 2016, 21:59 PMBudwise
Why is access to one of the better AT guns in the game at T2 not enough? Please just stop this agenda of giving Soviets more and more AT.

I really feel like you guys are just f-ing with stuff just to f with stuff.


When was the last time you have seen m-42 being used? It is a completely forgotten unit. Though it is still something that can be modified into fun to use weapon team with some changes. Like it's said in the post quoted in the OP, that doesn't even have to be a AT solution for T1. These ideas can also be used to salvage commanders if ptrs penals are here to stay.
13 Dec 2016, 22:11 PM
#32
avatar of Budwise
Admin Red  Badge
Donator 11

Posts: 2075 | Subs: 2



Aside from saving the M-42 from the UP abyss, the whole thing is about not letting the horrible idea of PTRS penals (at least for now, without said AI upgrade) to happen


PTRS Penals were a shit idea to begin with. There's no need to sub in an equally shitty idea in its place. They just need to know when an idea was bad and just remove it and move on.

You don't need a light vehicle hard counter in every single tier, come on people...
13 Dec 2016, 22:12 PM
#33
avatar of Budwise
Admin Red  Badge
Donator 11

Posts: 2075 | Subs: 2



When was the last time you have seen m-42 being used? It is a completely forgotten unit. Though it is still something that can be modified into fun to use weapon team with some changes. Like it's said in the post quoted in the OP, that doesn't even have to be a AT solution for T1. These ideas can also be used to salvage commanders if ptrs penals are here to stay.


There's plenty of meh doctrine abilities and units for every army, so what? With 5000 doctrines like COH2 has there is no viable way to balance all of them. Better a slightly UP unit than be the next meta bs.
13 Dec 2016, 22:14 PM
#34
avatar of zerocoh

Posts: 930

jump backJump back to quoted post13 Dec 2016, 21:59 PMBudwise
Why is access to one of the better AT guns in the game at T2 not enough? Please just stop this agenda of giving Soviets more and more AT.

I really feel like you guys are just f-ing with stuff just to f with stuff.


zis is the worst AT in the game, you can't be real.

And for no reason at all relic made them move slower on damaged terrain. (maybe because they are soviets LOL :^)
13 Dec 2016, 22:15 PM
#35
avatar of Budwise
Admin Red  Badge
Donator 11

Posts: 2075 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post13 Dec 2016, 22:14 PMzerocoh


zis is the worst AT in the game, you can't be real.

)


lol, play OKW much?
13 Dec 2016, 22:16 PM
#36
avatar of zerocoh

Posts: 930

Yes, the super crews that okw have are insanely good.
13 Dec 2016, 22:17 PM
#37
avatar of Budwise
Admin Red  Badge
Donator 11

Posts: 2075 | Subs: 2

Not sure if serious...
13 Dec 2016, 22:31 PM
#38
avatar of ferwiner
Donator 11

Posts: 2885

jump backJump back to quoted post13 Dec 2016, 22:15 PMBudwise


lol, play OKW much?


But isn't having raketen-style weapon for soviet T1 all we ask for? How is raketen being, in your opinion, bad against this idea?
13 Dec 2016, 22:38 PM
#39
avatar of Australian Magic

Posts: 4630 | Subs: 2



Sorry, but modders didn´t finished that idea, they want to implement good AI for penals first. Right now tier1 is so inefficient with or without penals with or without m42. There is no particular reason why you want to build little bit stronger yet expensive cons and shitty AT gun when you can have cons, maxims and good AT gun


That is why you want very powerful, fully AI Penals (not this current shit) with support of M-42.
13 Dec 2016, 22:58 PM
#40
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post13 Dec 2016, 22:17 PMBudwise
Not sure if serious...


Seems you haven't been playing but:

-OKW Rak is the only AT gun with 0.85 RA. Rest have 1.0 and USF 1.25
-OKW crew (MG/ISG included) for some reason are using Volks instead of "OKW crew"
This is the damage per model:
OKW: 1.93 / 4.94
SU: 0.29 / 1.32
OH: 0.18 / 3.40
USF: 0.67 / 2.41
UKF: 1.02 / 2.03
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