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russian armor

P.G.s a suggestion for a new vet 1 ability.

14 Sep 2016, 09:14 AM
#1
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13375 | Subs: 1

Most EFA units need new vet abilities custom made for them. Imo that is an easy way to improve the game while also improving balance.

For Panzer grenadiers I would suggest improving their synergy when fighting near tanks (or maybe vehicles in general) they are Panzer grenadiers after all.

The bonus could include a bit more speed so they can stay close to vehicles and some defensive bonuses like yellow/green cover modifiers when being close to tanks and/or some damage reduction from explosives reducing their weakness to squad wipes.
14 Sep 2016, 09:28 AM
#2
avatar of Jackas4life
Benefactor 115

Posts: 486 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post14 Sep 2016, 09:14 AMVipper
Most EFA units need new vet abilities custom made for them. Imo that is an easy way to improve the game while also improving balance.

For Panzer grenadiers I would suggest improving their synergy when fighting near tanks (or maybe vehicles in general) they are Panzer grenadiers after all.

The bonus could include a bit more speed so they can stay close to vehicles and some defensive bonuses like yellow/green cover modifiers when being close to tanks.


I believe back in alpha Pgrens either had an ability called target them (pretty much mark target but for infantry) or last man standing (pretty much Penal vet 1)

Personally I think OST/SOV vet 1 abilities need to be reworked, maybe into a accurately or received accuracy boost, alot like most units from WFA/Brits
14 Sep 2016, 09:46 AM
#3
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 4474

Pg:20 mun :reload and cd greatly reduced (50/60%) for 7 sec
Green: suppressive fire : only in green cover for 15 mun squad have suppression on 1 squad(like rear echelons but only in green cover and no draw back) for 10 sec changing target or moving will stop the ability

For su in need to think carefully after all almost all unit have trip wire ,but for shock troops something like the storm troopers assault would work ,eng are fine ,cons something for supporting,and guard I think just make them fire ptrs in the move at vet 1
14 Sep 2016, 10:48 AM
#4
avatar of Mr.Smith

Posts: 2636 | Subs: 17

I think going for an aura effect to improve the synergy between two unit types will be a huge mistake:
- There are already many things in the game that punish non-blobbing
- We don't want to further add more incentives to reward blobbing

A better way to improve the synergy between two unit types is to give them active, pay-to-use abilities that complement each other.
- e.g., if Panzer Tactician would allow Ostheer tanks to fire smoke shells/mortars to a remote location (rather than a cheap get-out-of-jail card), that would help them better cover PGren advances
- Alternatively, if PGrens could repair tanks/detect mines that would help tanks do their role (don't actually do this!)
- .. or give PGrens the ability to permanently disable abandoned AT guns (given that Ost has hard time recrewing things)

Moreover, designing an aura/ability that allows somebody to completely bypass the mechanics of cover will be a massive boost mindless a-move blobbing. Cover mechanics and bonuses are there to reward careful positioning.

Finally, if you give such an aura to PGrens, what chance would anybody have of stopping a PGren blob buffed by a command P4 in open portions of the map (where you have little cover, and they get the aura; just like that, for free)?
14 Sep 2016, 11:41 AM
#5
avatar of mortiferum

Posts: 568

Just let their vet 1 be tactical advance or something so they are significantly more effective if they get the drop on people in CQ.

Or just give them a straight performance buff, preferably one that overlaps with Vet II and III to get ultra high RA.
14 Sep 2016, 13:14 PM
#6
avatar of Corsin

Posts: 600

Better to give them the ability to repair, maybe repair critical?

Since ost rely on tanks... and have the worst repairs in the game...
14 Sep 2016, 16:26 PM
#7
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13375 | Subs: 1

I think going for an aura effect to improve the synergy between two unit types will be a huge mistake:
- There are already many things in the game that punish non-blobbing
- We don't want to further add more incentives to reward blobbing

P.G.s are rather hard to blob since they are expensive they come late and takes ages to reinforce...Further more they would have to operate near a tank or vehicle to get any bonus...so i more like combined arms and not blobbing of one unit...



Moreover, designing an aura/ability that allows somebody to completely bypass the mechanics of cover will be a massive boost mindless a-move blobbing. Cover mechanics and bonuses are there to reward careful positioning.

Well they should be able to operate behind the cover of tanks (and they can) but that needs too much macro...so this is substitute...

There are plenty of abilities that provide defensive bonuses already in the game this is nothing new...


Finally, if you give such an aura to PGrens, what chance would anybody have of stopping a PGren blob buffed by a command P4 in open portions of the map (where you have little cover, and they get the aura; just like that, for free)?

that is an issue of not having a cap to bonus a unit can have and should be addressed separately.


When it comes to giving them repair or minesweeper abilities I don't think that PG should be turned into SP...
14 Sep 2016, 16:43 PM
#8
avatar of wouren
Senior Social Media Manager Badge

Posts: 1280 | Subs: 3

I agree that vet 1 for ost needs a rework. I would argue that the bonuses should be simpler. Good vet 1 for grens and PGs would do loads for the faction as a whole.
14 Sep 2016, 16:48 PM
#9
avatar of vietnamabc

Posts: 1063

Give PG sprint with exhaustion like Rifleman, give Gren ability to build trench/sandbag at vet1. For Pioneer/CE, remove flamethrower explosion at vet1 or increase sweeping range + resistance to explosion.
14 Sep 2016, 16:55 PM
#10
avatar of wouren
Senior Social Media Manager Badge

Posts: 1280 | Subs: 3

Give PG sprint with exhaustion like Rifleman, give Gren ability to build trench/sandbag at vet1. For Pioneer/CE, remove flamethrower explosion at vet1 or increase sweeping range + resistance to explosion.

I would argue that this is over-complicated. I would get behind a 'fast repair' ability for pioneers tied to a munitions cost. PGs without schreks feel like penals with worse veterancy as of now. I think the builds for this faction could be expanded upon if PGs had better bonuses for vet.
14 Sep 2016, 18:02 PM
#11
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2

1-Mark target (alpha?)
2-Received accuracy split from vet 2
3-Same as 2 + smoke nade at higher vet level
4-Same as 2 + Increased vehicle detection at higher vet

14 Sep 2016, 19:05 PM
#12
avatar of PanzerGeneralForever

Posts: 1072

I like the idea of giving pgrens a critical repair ability at vet 1. It relates panzer grenadiers to their panzers.
14 Sep 2016, 19:32 PM
#13
avatar of Kamzil118

Posts: 455

I have an idea that the Panzergrenadiers could get an ability which suppresses infantry. Much faster than the rear echelons, but when the PGs get their Panzerschrecks, the ability is switched out by another ability that increases rate of fire for the infantry anti-tank weapons at the cost of accuracy.
14 Sep 2016, 19:46 PM
#14
avatar of Tobis
Senior Strategist Badge
Donator 11

Posts: 2307 | Subs: 4

-15% Received Accuracy when standing still.

Pros:
-Doesn't encourage blobbing
-Promotes proper positioning and use of True-Sight, instead of making them terminators
-Boosts close range survivability
-Reinforces their role as a close range defensive unit, rather than an assault unit like shocks
-Can still be countered by attacking from long range


Pgrens have always been an underrated unit.
14 Sep 2016, 20:00 PM
#15
avatar of Vuther
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 3103 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post14 Sep 2016, 19:46 PMTobis
-15% Received Accuracy when standing still.

...
14 Sep 2016, 20:53 PM
#16
avatar of What Doth Life?!
Patrion 27

Posts: 1664

I remember Jason Lee EXPLICITLY saying they were gonna work on/overhaul veterancy. We're waiting...
14 Sep 2016, 23:38 PM
#17
avatar of Mistah_S

Posts: 851 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post14 Sep 2016, 19:46 PMTobis
-15% Received Accuracy when standing still.
Pgrens have always been an underrated unit.

Fantastic Suggestion!
:clap::clap:

+1
15 Sep 2016, 01:42 AM
#18
avatar of Outsider_Sidaroth

Posts: 1323 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post14 Sep 2016, 20:00 PMVuther

...


This would only cause more outcry about 4 men squads getting one shot by indirect fire or explosive tank rounds :sibHyena:
15 Sep 2016, 03:06 AM
#19
avatar of Vuther
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 3103 | Subs: 1



This would only cause more outcry about 4 men squads getting one shot by indirect fire or explosive tank rounds :sibHyena:

Then they can stand still out of cover to spread out a bit more but still get -15% RA :snfPeter:
15 Sep 2016, 13:41 PM
#20
avatar of aomsinzana

Posts: 284 | Subs: 1

u mean change PzGren to Tommies right ? Kappa
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