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russian armor

Remove the flamer from penals or

14 Aug 2016, 12:13 PM
#21
avatar of Taksin02

Posts: 148



The battlegroup HQ opening is really weak now, especially vs a soviet rifle command opening. So you are forced to go for mech HQ which delays your MG even further. I would not count on the MG countering penals in the early game as OKW.


if soviet player go for rifle command that means no Zis-3 so you could fight them with flak halftrack or kubel troll until dead .
except he going for AT nade, guard or m-42 pudding gun commander

(Sorry for my bad english)
14 Aug 2016, 12:16 PM
#22
avatar of CartoonVillain

Posts: 474



if soviet player go for rifle command that means no Zis-3 so you could fight them with flak halftrack or kubel troll until dead .
except he going for AT nade, guard or m-42 pudding gun commander

(Sorry for my bad english)


The Flak HT will probably get satchel charged by a flanking penal before it can pack up and run.
14 Aug 2016, 12:30 PM
#23
avatar of pigsoup
Patrion 14

Posts: 4301 | Subs: 2

switch with ppsh upgrade?
14 Aug 2016, 12:38 PM
#24
avatar of aerafield

Posts: 2996 | Subs: 3

How about t3 building unlocking the flamer upgrade? cuz when you completely remove it, Penals will have 0 chance vs vetted stg volksgrens and obersoldaten in mid/late game, so people would come back to cry in the forums again
14 Aug 2016, 12:55 PM
#26
avatar of chipwreckt

Posts: 732

Its not "front line infantry" when its stuck behind a tech building IMO. There is still plenty of players that dont even touch T1 because maxims are super strong aswell etcccc

But I prefer not to upgrade the flamer so the penals win even on long range vs LMG grens he he he
14 Aug 2016, 12:57 PM
#27
avatar of mortiferum

Posts: 571

Its not "front line infantry" when its stuck behind a tech building IMO. There is still plenty of players that dont even touch T1 because maxims are super strong aswell etcccc

But I prefer not to upgrade the flamer so the penals win even on long range vs LMG grens he he he


Applying your logic, grenadiers are actually not frontline infantry )))))))

PIONEER, BEST INFANTRY OF OSTHEER
14 Aug 2016, 13:12 PM
#28
avatar of chipwreckt

Posts: 732



Applying your logic, grenadiers are actually not frontline infantry )))))))

PIONEER, BEST INFANTRY OF OSTHEER


Joker. Wrong context. This topic is about flamers on infantry. And untill Ostheer does not get that glorious Urban Assault commander :clap: it has nothing to do with this discussion.
14 Aug 2016, 13:15 PM
#29
avatar of ferwiner
Donator 11

Posts: 2885



The Flak HT will probably get satchel charged by a flanking penal before it can pack up and run.


Since when does flak HT have pack up time?
14 Aug 2016, 13:19 PM
#30
avatar of CartoonVillain

Posts: 474



Since when does flak HT have pack up time?


Shows how much I've used it...
14 Aug 2016, 13:25 PM
#31
avatar of mortiferum

Posts: 571



Since when does flak HT have pack up time?


On pack up, dependent on luck, it doughnuts a little....

Like all light vehicle, pathfinding is absolutely retarded.
14 Aug 2016, 13:29 PM
#32
avatar of easierwithaturret

Posts: 247

Penals are ok in 1v1, they have clear disadvantages (expensive, no specialist role while also lacking AT, going t1 means no Zis/Maxim straight away). In larger team games they are a problem because teammates can cover the AT gap, and MGs are generally harder to keep alive in larger games with more indirect.
14 Aug 2016, 13:53 PM
#33
avatar of ZombiFrancis

Posts: 2742

Penal Battalions and the whole of T1 have no AT. If there's any Soviet T1 unit the Axis player can be assured that light vehicles will be a good decision. If the Soviet brings out Guards, note that the Soviet will need to split its forces between Penals, Guards, and maybe conscripts for an actual snare. That's a huge amount of manpower to maintain, not to mention the Soviet player will only be able to counter you if they have 3+ units together. If they split up their capabilities are likewise just as split.

In my opinion, Penals need it so if a satchel charge is thrown onto a vehicle and lands literally 'on' the vehicle, it should stick to it until the timer runs out. I've been trying to figure out how to do it ingame, but the best I can do is have satchel charges be literally sticky nades when targeting vehicles, which isn't really the goal.

If Penals had a form of AT in this sense, their flamethrowers would certainly need an analysis. But currently Penals are designed to just troll the face off of garrisons because of their lack of AT.
14 Aug 2016, 14:11 PM
#34
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 4474

Penal too strong right now cause they have 12dps total at long range (green have 9) and 60 at close
+ flamer at vet has 2 shoot a second
Did I mention they got 25 reinforce 300 mp and six men
(60 bonus accuracy with vet )
And the argument of not at is not soo good as you can get dsk,guard,m42(yea I know)
And you can easily rush t70
14 Aug 2016, 14:31 PM
#35
avatar of Shell_yeah

Posts: 258

Penals are specialist unit that has no AT and less durable than conscripts(cons have better defensive vet). All you need is focus them down every time you see them, same way as you always focus on shocks first.

Penals are still much less used than maxim spamerino, so it obviously shows that even with them being buffed T1 is less useful than T2. The only way to pull off a T1 opening with penals(or sniper) is to always use guards and rush an SU-76 asap before you get rekt by Luchs or double 222. And with T2 you are completely safe against any threats and dont need doctrinal stuff as much as with t1.
14 Aug 2016, 14:40 PM
#36
avatar of vasa1719

Posts: 2635 | Subs: 4

Permanently Banned


The Flak HT will probably get satchel charged by a flanking penal before it can pack up and run.


Whut ? Ofc, do you hear about micro ? The HT work fine vs them coz no at nades. AA HT have there own problem, but its work vs penals.
14 Aug 2016, 14:43 PM
#37
avatar of IamCat

Posts: 84

I swear, anything Soviets have that is good and better than the axis side, people will just whine here so they nerf it.

Back then it was:
-Conscripts op, conspam, conspam, conspam :*(:*(:*(

They nerfed conscripts to ground so that they can't touch anything at any range, conspam was no more, so soviets are now switching to maxim spam instead since cons are plain trash.

Now they finally get an infantry squad that allows them to be on par with the rest, T1 is at last of good use and what you say?

-Nerf penals, penals op they win long range too and have op flamer :*(:*(:*("

Crying out the "penal spam", don't make me laugh, if you lose to somebody popping out 4+ penals, you suck honestly.

Did you at least consider that Soviets have no good infantry squad (something to equal balance against enemy infantry) in early game, and they need to tech up + spend 300mp for each of these to be built, to leave out anti-tank guns temporarily?

So Penals are op because they have a flamer that reduces their dps and is only good to deny green cover.
A 60 muni upgrade, is it something that every penals upgrades to?

Decide yourselves already? What's not good for soviets to have?


14 Aug 2016, 14:43 PM
#38
avatar of vasa1719

Posts: 2635 | Subs: 4

Permanently Banned
Maybe somthing need do with flamer, coz thay really destroy all early cover game (maybe up pride for flamer), but dont need forget that its not line infatry, so its must be better than line infatry.
14 Aug 2016, 15:03 PM
#39
avatar of Ulaire Minya

Posts: 372

Just give Penals the ppsh upgrade. Problem solved: cqc upgrade that doesn't nullify cover.
nee
14 Aug 2016, 15:05 PM
#40
avatar of nee

Posts: 1216

Replace with DP-28 upgrade, but have the flamer included with the conscript SMG doctrinal unlock?
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