Login

russian armor

Remove the flamer from penals or

14 Aug 2016, 09:45 AM
#1
avatar of wuff

Posts: 1534 | Subs: 1

Penals are over performing.

Not so long ago the consensus was that rifle companies flamer unlock on riflemen was an extremely bad idea, since riflemen are front line infantry, 5 man squads and durable.

For some reason history has repeated itself and we're back but this time with a 6 man durable front line squad with flamers.

This doesn't work.

Flamers work on support units because they're not durable and ideally need support, this isn't the case for penals and thus is broken.

soviets have plenty of cover denial and building clearing abilities.


14 Aug 2016, 10:07 AM
#2
avatar of Taksin02

Posts: 148

no flamer = 2x dp
or flamer to conscript
14 Aug 2016, 10:19 AM
#3
avatar of Obersoldat

Posts: 393

no flamer = 2x dp
or flamer to conscript



Did you even read his thread? Flamers(non doc) to conscripts would mean a even more improved version of old Riflecompany.
14 Aug 2016, 10:20 AM
#4
avatar of Sinister

Posts: 96 | Subs: 1

Penals are fine, they are nowhere near as good as riflemen no at nades, or smokes and they definitely need at support, by nerfing them u could just bury t1 again.
14 Aug 2016, 10:38 AM
#5
avatar of Alphrum

Posts: 808

They are no where near OP as flamers were on rifleman.
14 Aug 2016, 10:41 AM
#6
avatar of strafniki

Posts: 558 | Subs: 1

some nice MG34/42 placement can deny strafniki pushes pretty easily. unlike it was with the cancerous rifleman..

strafniki might be strong, but i wouldnt rate them OP. unless penals are combined with sniper + guards, then it starts to become cancerous..
14 Aug 2016, 10:43 AM
#7
avatar of wuff

Posts: 1534 | Subs: 1

Penals are fine, they are nowhere near as good as riflemen no at nades, or smokes and they definitely need at support, by nerfing them u could just bury t1 again.


It doesn't matter if they don't have smoke or AT nades, the fact that a flamer is on front line infantry is what is broken.
14 Aug 2016, 10:51 AM
#8
avatar of Panzerschützen

Posts: 186

no flamer = 2x dp
or flamer to conscript

I logged in to say you ''lol shut up''
14 Aug 2016, 10:53 AM
#9
avatar of NEVEC

Posts: 708 | Subs: 1

No flamer = add something else what will perform like double bar or m1919, simple. Also give them smoke and normal grenades. And they are not overperfoming.
14 Aug 2016, 10:55 AM
#10
avatar of ferwiner
Donator 11

Posts: 2885

jump backJump back to quoted post14 Aug 2016, 10:43 AMwuff


It doesn't matter if they don't have smoke or AT nades, the fact that a flamer is on front line infantry is what is broken.


It matters. A lot. It just means that you can close up with any vehicle you have and do impossible amounts of damage with its gun. Or you can just crush them. The lack of AI nades and smoke also means they loose to mgs, especially as mortar is in different tier.

And its not even that the unit has no AT, its the whole tier that has no AT at all.
14 Aug 2016, 10:58 AM
#11
avatar of wuff

Posts: 1534 | Subs: 1



It matters. A lot. It just means that you can close up with any vehicle you have and do impossible amounts of damage with its gun. Or you can just crush them. The lack of AI nades and smoke also means they loose to mgs, especially as mortar is in different tier.


That is not early game, were penals are over performing.

AT nades are a vet 1 unlock and smoke is an upgrade, these all come a little later.
14 Aug 2016, 11:02 AM
#12
avatar of wuff

Posts: 1534 | Subs: 1



It matters. A lot. It just means that you can close up with any vehicle you have and do impossible amounts of damage with its gun. Or you can just crush them. The lack of AI nades and smoke also means they loose to mgs, especially as mortar is in different tier.

And its not even that the unit has no AT, its the whole tier that has no AT at all.


There aren't any vehicles on the filed that would worry tier 1, and even with a quick scout car or luchs, guards and AT nades work perfectly if that is even needed since a T70 can be out at a similar time.
14 Aug 2016, 11:07 AM
#13
avatar of ferwiner
Donator 11

Posts: 2885

jump backJump back to quoted post14 Aug 2016, 10:58 AMwuff


That is not early game, were penals are over performing.

AT nades are a vet 1 unlock and smoke is an upgrade, these all come a little later.


They are powerful early game, still mgs are available to both axis factions from the get go. Usf nades were also pretty early since you could get vet one with the ability, and the upgrade is pretty cheap and accessible, the only reason not to get it first is that you get the squad with the tier making your force even scarier.

So, in fact, both units are really powerful early game, but riflemen were a lot better in mid and late game. Penals are much like a one trick pony, they cant even throw short fuse nade or deal enough damage to kill the 222 fast, like shocks do, and the lack of smoke is pretty bad against long range infantry or mgs.
14 Aug 2016, 11:12 AM
#14
avatar of __deleted__

Posts: 4314 | Subs: 7

Looks like no one pointed why flamethrowers on main line infantry (what penals are cause you can spam then from early game and then support them with elite infantry - guards) is bad.

It removes positioning and cover play from enemy.

Axis main line infantry have 2 options - stick to heavy cover/ house and they win the fight by superior positioning (this can be countered by grenades, whitch if fine because you lose munition every time enemy outplay you) but against penals they cannot.

Flamethrower puts them into lose-lose situation. You´ve got house by superior play, well f*ck you I have cheap 60 munny upgrade that hardcounters any green cover/ house play on mainline infantry.

You stick to play in the open, hahaha, youre done, my penals DPS outmatch gren DPS (after vet 2 completely because of crazy accuraccy bonus).


On the other side having flametrower on enginners / squadshy squads is fine because you need 2 squads to counter 1 squad in house and if enemy have 2 squads as well there (so he outplays you in that part of map), then he can hop out from house, kill enginners and hop once again inside and win engangement or you can outplay him by rushing house when he is in the open so this is 100% fine.


Hovewer when 1 mainline ifantry always outmatch you regarding of positioning and numers, then there is something wrong.


Lmg is nowhere as OP on mainline infantry as flametrower because you still can win against LMG if you get superior cover and lmg can do nothing then.



Hope I explaying you well, why flametrower on mainline infantry will always be bad, regardeless of other utility.

Oh and I forget penals get also ooraah so they can close the distance really fast and thust even playing at long range wont give you any advantage, because once they get at flametrower range you lost your position and possibly even engangement.
14 Aug 2016, 11:13 AM
#15
avatar of __deleted__

Posts: 4314 | Subs: 7


So, in fact, both units are really powerful early game, but riflemen were a lot better in mid and late game. Penals are much like a one trick pony, they cant even throw short fuse nade or deal enough damage to kill the 222 fast, like shocks do, and the lack of smoke is pretty bad against long range infantry or mgs.


Guards counter 222 well and ooraah is really similar to smoke if we are talking about closing the gap against long range infantry
14 Aug 2016, 11:17 AM
#16
avatar of Taksin02

Posts: 148

or molotov for both penal and cons idk they need something to clear the building
14 Aug 2016, 11:19 AM
#17
avatar of ferwiner
Donator 11

Posts: 2885



Guards counter 222 well and ooraah is really similar to smoke if we are talking about closing the gap against long range infantry


Well, ooraah could get removed, it may be a little to much. But still, the penal is a unit with so many disadvantages, it should keep its flamer as a unique unit and faction benefit. Especially as this very same faction can do the same thing to axis units by merging cons into engies.
14 Aug 2016, 11:55 AM
#18
avatar of CartoonVillain

Posts: 474



They are powerful early game, still mgs are available to both axis factions from the get go.


Since when?
14 Aug 2016, 11:59 AM
#19
avatar of ferwiner
Donator 11

Posts: 2885



Since when?


Well okw doesn't have it before building first tier, either tier. But hey, do soviets have penals in HQ? Okw also has LV in T0...
14 Aug 2016, 12:04 PM
#20
avatar of CartoonVillain

Posts: 474



Well okw doesn't have it before building first tier, either tier. But hey, do soviets have penals in HQ? Okw also has LV in T0...


The battlegroup HQ opening is really weak now, especially vs a soviet rifle command opening. So you are forced to go for mech HQ which delays your MG even further. I would not count on the MG countering penals in the early game as OKW.
1 user is browsing this thread: 1 guest

Ladders Top 10

  • #
    Steam Alias
    W
    L
    %
    Streak
Data provided by Relic Relic Entertainment

Replay highlight

VS
  • U.S. Forces flag cblanco ★
  • The British Forces flag 보드카 중대
  • Oberkommando West flag VonManteuffel
  • Ostheer flag Heartless Jäger
uploaded by XXxxHeartlessxxXX

Board Info

261 users are online: 261 guests
3 posts in the last 24h
12 posts in the last week
81 posts in the last month
Registered members: 44130
Welcome our newest member, radiantacademy
Most online: 2043 users on 29 Oct 2023, 01:04 AM