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russian armor

Too much artillery?

15 Jul 2016, 08:27 AM
#61
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17875 | Subs: 8



While you are right, you don't mention that the ISU also one shotted inf squads in 100 range about 50-80% of the time back then because it didn't need to change ammunition and had a huge sight radius with its ability.

The Elefant won against the ISU and other tanks, but the ISU won against everything else, especially every kind of infantry.



I did a couple of posts above :romeoPro:
15 Jul 2016, 08:28 AM
#62
avatar of ullumulu

Posts: 2243

I had yesterday one match..where i build 3 rocket launcher from ostherr ..and they was very effective to destroy the enemys army while they start an attack.

and with vet 3 they was reloaded while the enmy heal his army...it was one massacker after next massacker.


i need only a view ...what is totally easy with the right commander.


Arty in good hands = OP.
15 Jul 2016, 09:39 AM
#63
avatar of Highfiveeeee

Posts: 1740

jump backJump back to quoted post15 Jul 2016, 08:27 AMKatitof


I did a couple of posts above :romeoPro:


Oh I am sorry then, didn't have time to read through everything :)
15 Jul 2016, 13:51 PM
#64
avatar of d0ggY
Senior Caster Badge

Posts: 823 | Subs: 3

jump backJump back to quoted post15 Jul 2016, 06:49 AMKatitof



Even WITH mark target, Ele had ~100 more armor, TWICE the penetration and slightly shorter reload.
Ele penetrated RELIABLY IS-2, while ISU struggled to pen tiger.


how do you know when you haven't played the game at all?

Don't come with stats now. I've did it a lot of times i rekt Elefants with ISU.
15 Jul 2016, 13:58 PM
#65
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17875 | Subs: 8

jump backJump back to quoted post15 Jul 2016, 13:51 PMd0ggY


how do you know when you haven't played the game at all?

Don't come with stats now. I've did it a lot of times i rekt Elefants with ISU.


And with enough RNG on your side, soviet M15 is best AA in the game. :snfBarton:

Every unit have a lucky RNG streak once in a while, that still doesn't mean it suddenly counters its counters.
15 Jul 2016, 14:05 PM
#66
avatar of Grittle

Posts: 179

jump backJump back to quoted post15 Jul 2016, 13:51 PMd0ggY


how do you know when you haven't played the game at all?

Don't come with stats now. I've did it a lot of times i rekt Elefants with ISU.


You either flanked the ele, outplayed it with more infantry and AT support, or the enemy was a borb.

You just have to see their names to know who would win a majority of the time

ISU-152 ASSAULT GUN

Elefant TANK DESTROYER
15 Jul 2016, 15:36 PM
#67
avatar of d0ggY
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Posts: 823 | Subs: 3

jump backJump back to quoted post15 Jul 2016, 14:05 PMGrittle


You either flanked the ele, outplayed it with more infantry and AT support, or the enemy was a borb.

You just have to see their names to know who would win a majority of the time

ISU-152 ASSAULT GUN

Elefant TANK DESTROYER


jump backJump back to quoted post15 Jul 2016, 13:58 PMKatitof


And with enough RNG on your side, soviet M15 is best AA in the game. :snfBarton:

Every unit have a lucky RNG streak once in a while, that still doesn't mean it suddenly counters its counters.


You have a ability that is called "piercing shot" or something like that, ever used it? also playercard grittle?
15 Jul 2016, 15:45 PM
#68
avatar of ZombiFrancis

Posts: 2742

The ISU, Elefant, and JT have always been terrible units when isolated an unsupported.

The ISU used to be peerless at leaving an Elefant or JT unsupported. Elefant and JT? Not so much. I dunno what there is to debate.

It was a linear and predictable matchup, but it kept people playing because it was at least a bit dynamic. Suppressing ISGs were worse IMO, and the early days of trolling with CAS were probably bar none the cheesiest bit of CoH2's history.
15 Jul 2016, 19:07 PM
#69
avatar of elchino7
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Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post15 Jul 2016, 15:36 PMd0ggY
You have a ability that is called "piercing shot" or something like that, ever used it? also playercard grittle?


Still, Jaeger armor would counterpick what was meta at that point (ISU or Artillery). If you were not worried about arty, you could also go for Fortified armor and have smoke to counter button + IL2 bombing strike cheese.

EVEN with mark vehicle, you would had same dmg as Ele with lower RoF AND like 60% chance of pen. Piercing shot was not guaranteed to hit in the same way TWP work at that point IIRC (hit ground not tracking unit). And tell me how could you surprise an ELE with an ISU when you had 150 sight range with focus sight + spotting scope or recon planes ?

ISU was not meant to destroy other tanks or be able to present a fight to the Ele, it was there to kill your AT guns + infantry so you could then push it with your own Zis + Guards + mediums (or just to be honest, the blob of double T3485s).
15 Jul 2016, 20:10 PM
#70
avatar of d0ggY
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Posts: 823 | Subs: 3



Still, Jaeger armor would counterpick what was meta at that point (ISU or Artillery). If you were not worried about arty, you could also go for Fortified armor and have smoke to counter button + IL2 bombing strike cheese.

EVEN with mark vehicle, you would had same dmg as Ele with lower RoF AND like 60% chance of pen. Piercing shot was not guaranteed to hit in the same way TWP work at that point IIRC (hit ground not tracking unit). And tell me how could you surprise an ELE with an ISU when you had 150 sight range with focus sight + spotting scope or recon planes ?

ISU was not meant to destroy other tanks or be able to present a fight to the Ele, it was there to kill your AT guns + infantry so you could then push it with your own Zis + Guards + mediums (or just to be honest, the blob of double T3485s).


Intresting, can you teach me how to play please? I suck appareantly MVGame
Phy
15 Jul 2016, 21:05 PM
#71
avatar of Phy

Posts: 509 | Subs: 1


If enemy is blobbing really hard, I should get 2 HMGs.


Good luck with that.
15 Jul 2016, 21:31 PM
#72
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post15 Jul 2016, 20:10 PMd0ggY


Intresting, can you teach me how to play please? I suck appareantly MVGame


So do you have anything to refute on what i said? Prior to the march patch (which introduced pio/gren OPieop), every game on 2v2 was mostly ISU vs Ele if both parties were "tryharding". I played enough at the top of the ladder at that time to remember well.

ISU never rolled over the Ele. ISU rolled over pak wall and infantry which would let you roll over the Ele with T3485 spam + mark vehicle or IL2 + button + mark vehicle.
15 Jul 2016, 22:09 PM
#73
avatar of d0ggY
Senior Caster Badge

Posts: 823 | Subs: 3



So do you have anything to refute on what i said? Prior to the march patch (which introduced pio/gren OPieop), every game on 2v2 was mostly ISU vs Ele if both parties were "tryharding". I played enough at the top of the ladder at that time to remember well.

ISU never rolled over the Ele. ISU rolled over pak wall and infantry which would let you roll over the Ele with T3485 spam + mark vehicle or IL2 + button + mark vehicle.
Sigh, and you have never pressured an elefant that far back with just the isu?
16 Jul 2016, 04:36 AM
#74
avatar of suuuhdude

Posts: 44

I remember a time when ISG and pakhowie were perfect. Then they got suppression. Then just fuckin broken OP. Then instead of reverting pre suppression. They just nerfed both into fucking uselessness.

The isg is lucky to get even 5 kills a match it is thoroughly worthless for anything other than dealing some damage to mgs in buildings, pack howie has pathetic range everyone just buys mortar.
16 Jul 2016, 08:22 AM
#75
avatar of Australian Magic

Posts: 4630 | Subs: 2

I remember a time when ISG and pakhowie were perfect. Then they got suppression. Then just fuckin broken OP. Then instead of reverting pre suppression. They just nerfed both into fucking uselessness.

The isg is lucky to get even 5 kills a match it is thoroughly worthless for anything other than dealing some damage to mgs in buildings, pack howie has pathetic range everyone just buys mortar.


Not sure if trolling or serious.
16 Jul 2016, 17:19 PM
#76
avatar of elchino7
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jump backJump back to quoted post15 Jul 2016, 22:09 PMd0ggY
Sigh, and you have never pressured an elefant that far back with just the isu?

Pressure an ELE which has lost it's support and it's been attacked with Zis n medium tanks? Or it's already on low health and needs to be finished off? Sure. But you wrote:

"ISU against ELE was a fair Duel, also ISU rolled Ele with the mark target (who took the shocktroop one sucked)"

Correct me if i'm wrong but i interpret that as ez 1v1 match up between both tanks.
17 Jul 2016, 09:07 AM
#77
avatar of ThoseDeafMutes

Posts: 1026

My 3v3 team has been on a loss streak lately, and I think it's largely attributable to LeFH added to OKW. It was a somewhat rare sight previously, but in maybe 6 games we've seen it 4 times. It's not like it's impossible to win, but previously when a game was heavily contested / even through to the mid-late game, we would generally be dodging Stukkas. The LEFH seems to be the last straw that has tipped these games, in combination with all the other units on a typical 3v3 axis combined arms force.

I'm a shit player though so whatever.
18 Jul 2016, 01:12 AM
#78
avatar of easierwithaturret

Posts: 247



Not sure if trolling or serious.


He's kinda right though, ISG is still useful against emplacements due to its range but it is lackluster against infantry. In the mid game that manpower is usually better spend on another infantry squad. If you're back teching to med truck then it has little use in the late game.

Pack howitzer is irrelevant since USF got mortar, I haven't seen a single one since then. Even before it was a clumsy RNG cannon with a crap barrage. Instead of being used in its intended role of attacking bunkers, garrisons and OKW trucks its main value was in cheese wipes on Grenadier squads. If pack howi had more range and less AOE it would better perform its role with less annoying instagibs on axis players.
18 Jul 2016, 08:14 AM
#79
avatar of Australian Magic

Posts: 4630 | Subs: 2



He's kinda right though, ISG is still useful against emplacements due to its range but it is lackluster against infantry. In the mid game that manpower is usually better spend on another infantry squad. If you're back teching to med truck then it has little use in the late game.

Pack howitzer is irrelevant since USF got mortar, I haven't seen a single one since then. Even before it was a clumsy RNG cannon with a crap barrage. Instead of being used in its intended role of attacking bunkers, garrisons and OKW trucks its main value was in cheese wipes on Grenadier squads. If pack howi had more range and less AOE it would better perform its role with less annoying instagibs on axis players.


Then you should try to use them or watch some 1v1 replays instead of spreaging bullshit.
19 Jul 2016, 00:15 AM
#80
avatar of easierwithaturret

Posts: 247



Then you should try to use them or watch some 1v1 replays instead of spreaging bullshit.


In 1v1 the ISG is rarely worthwhile against USF because their squads are always moving and it gets BTFO by the mortar. Against sovs it has use against maxim spam, but getting it early means no luchs rush or quick puma to counter t70. Against brits, as described previously. It is a valuable part of the OKW arsenal but damaging rifle infantry is not its forte.

Pack howi can be devastating in the right hands but as of right now the mortar has far greater effectiveness relative to to risk and micro involved with using it. When (or if...) it gets fixed the pack howi will come back into the meta but it will still be an inconsistent wipe machine.
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