Ost just needs better vet. The infantry themselves aren't too bad, but they don't scale very well late game.
Grens hold up for a bit, even better with the LMG upgrade, but after rifles and sections hit vet2/3, they become completely useless.
PGrens are just way too expensive, but they can at least deal with vetted rifles and sections.
Solution: give grenadiers better vet bonuses. That's all.
Buff Wehrmacht
29 Jun 2016, 20:25 PM
#61
Posts: 210
29 Jun 2016, 20:33 PM
#62
Posts: 875 | Subs: 2
The forums in a nutshell:
Allied fanboys vision: Wehrmacht needs to be nerfed. Tiger ace is still OP. Ostwind is too cheap. USF mortar costs too much so it must be reduced to 200 mp. Grens can kill my afk rifle squad, must nerffff. P4 can pen a Sherman occasionally = PLEZ NERF, AXIS RUINING MY FAP.
Everybody else's vision: Wehrmacht needs to be buffed.
Allied fanboys vision: Wehrmacht needs to be nerfed. Tiger ace is still OP. Ostwind is too cheap. USF mortar costs too much so it must be reduced to 200 mp. Grens can kill my afk rifle squad, must nerffff. P4 can pen a Sherman occasionally = PLEZ NERF, AXIS RUINING MY FAP.
Everybody else's vision: Wehrmacht needs to be buffed.
29 Jun 2016, 20:37 PM
#63
Posts: 1891
Honestly copy and past vcoh Volks for Grens with LMG instead of mp40s, vcoh PzGrens for Pzgrens (no zeal or research ofc) and make MG42 a 3 man team but reduce the set up time by 1 second and arc by 15 degrees
The Fascisti Will Pay.
29 Jun 2016, 20:59 PM
#64
Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2
Looking at the powercreep brought by the new factions, seeing that the current power level is the status quo, why not implement the following changes for EFA:
-I'm still waiting for the revamp on vet1 basic abilities
-BP3 unlocks on HQ upgrade for: +1 man for Pios and Grens (improves repair speed, ease of recrewing weapons and survivability).
-SU T4 unlocks upgrade for: reduce cost on reinforce and reinforce speed for Cons. (i'm reluctant on giving PPSH/DP, specially as they now have DPS with Penals).
-I'm still waiting for the revamp on vet1 basic abilities
-BP3 unlocks on HQ upgrade for: +1 man for Pios and Grens (improves repair speed, ease of recrewing weapons and survivability).
-SU T4 unlocks upgrade for: reduce cost on reinforce and reinforce speed for Cons. (i'm reluctant on giving PPSH/DP, specially as they now have DPS with Penals).
My controls weren't working
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
29 Jun 2016, 22:52 PM
#65
Posts: 109
This is a common sentiment, but I would like if all core infantry were 5 man teams, panzergrens included. The 4 man team is just too easy to kill with indirect. Indirect is cancerous anyways. Mortars shouldn't auto fire at all.
29 Jun 2016, 23:19 PM
#66
4 
Posts: 4301 | Subs: 2
The forums in a nutshell:
Allied fanboys:
Axis fanboys:
Everybody else:
 | Playercard of Bo-Bobby Lion | |||||||||||||||
|
29 Jun 2016, 23:20 PM
#67
Posts: 109
hahahahaha i just pissed my pants i hate you
30 Jun 2016, 00:07 AM
#68
Posts: 144
The forums in a nutshell:
Allied fanboys vision: Wehrmacht needs to be nerfed. Tiger ace is still OP. Ostwind is too cheap. USF mortar costs too much so it must be reduced to 200 mp. Grens can kill my afk rifle squad, must nerffff. P4 can pen a Sherman occasionally = PLEZ NERF, AXIS RUINING MY FAP.
Everybody else's vision: Wehrmacht is fine.
Karbinder vision: I uninstall coh2 until my kruup stahl is buffed like 2013 real panzerkampfwagen, i don't want to heard about a possible flank with my Vet 2 P4 + blitz + smoke + skirt + hvap (okw) cause, hilariously, relic want T 34-76 to be OP AS HELL OMGokw
ostheer Festung Europa don't have to move to win, LELIC
SIEG ... oh wait
#FreeKatitof
soviets
#Give20BucksToThisBravePigsoup
amis #CIAisStrongHereCA
soviets #Give20BucksToThisBravePigsoupamis #CIAisStrongHereCA
30 Jun 2016, 00:55 AM
#69
Posts: 276
For the love of god just start with the utterly useless vet 1 ost infantry have. Been useless since forever.
I am not responsible for anything I say.
30 Jun 2016, 01:23 AM
#70
Posts: 2983 | Subs: 3
Oh my god this thread...
So many ppl whining about Wehrmacht, how on earth do you play this faction? Are you one of these "I build 1 MG, then I get 3 grens and put them all in a blob. And that pretty much explains my whole early + mid game
" people?
Ostherr is fine, there is just no unit that can be used effective with 0 support.
Just combine mg with 1, max. 2 grens, AT gun, pzgrens, reinforcement halftrack, 222, and either snip or mortar at the front(depends on map) as BASIC army and there you go
Oh and just a little secret: If you abandon the idea that OST can be played like the other factions, then you are on the right way
If you have like every t1+t2 unit on the field (WITHOUT SPAMMING ONE OF IT LOL) ostheer is pretty dominating the majority of the games if the player has much micro knowledge
A variousity of units on the field combined with the right building order to counter the enemy (predicting what the enemy is going to build next) is the key
So many ppl whining about Wehrmacht, how on earth do you play this faction? Are you one of these "I build 1 MG, then I get 3 grens and put them all in a blob. And that pretty much explains my whole early + mid game
" people?Ostherr is fine, there is just no unit that can be used effective with 0 support.
Just combine mg with 1, max. 2 grens, AT gun, pzgrens, reinforcement halftrack, 222, and either snip or mortar at the front(depends on map) as BASIC army and there you go
Oh and just a little secret: If you abandon the idea that OST can be played like the other factions, then you are on the right way
If you have like every t1+t2 unit on the field (WITHOUT SPAMMING ONE OF IT LOL) ostheer is pretty dominating the majority of the games if the player has much micro knowledge
A variousity of units on the field combined with the right building order to counter the enemy (predicting what the enemy is going to build next) is the key
30 Jun 2016, 02:17 AM
#71
Posts: 46
Oh my god this thread...
So many ppl whining about Wehrmacht, how on earth do you play this faction? Are you one of these "I build 1 MG, then I get 3 grens and put them all in a blob. And that pretty much explains my whole early + mid game
Ostherr is fine, there is just no unit that can be used effective with 0 support.
Just combine mg with 1, max. 2 grens, AT gun, pzgrens, reinforcement halftrack, 222, and either snip or mortar at the front(depends on map) as BASIC army and there you go
Oh and just a little secret: If you abandon the idea that OST can be played like the other factions, then you are on the right way
If you have like every t1+t2 unit on the field (WITHOUT SPAMMING ONE OF IT LOL) ostheer is pretty dominating the majority of the games if the player has much micro knowledge
A variousity of units on the field combined with the right building order to counter the enemy (predicting what the enemy is going to build next) is the key
Ostheer is not "fine". Currently, the faction underperforms severely and the faction has a lack of late game infantry to combat the heavily buffed Western front infantry, in addition to shock troops and the new buffed penal battalions.
The main issues are the terrible investment that t4 is, the infantry situation, and the imbalance the USF mortar brings to the field in that it will wipe support weapons off the field in seconds.
30 Jun 2016, 02:53 AM
#72
Posts: 930
Ostheer is not "fine". Currently, the faction underperforms severely and the faction has a lack of late game infantry to combat the heavily buffed Western front infantry, in addition to shock troops and the new buffed penal battalions.
The main issues are the terrible investment that t4 is, the infantry situation, and the imbalance the USF mortar brings to the field in that it will wipe support weapons off the field in seconds.
T4 was never a terrible investment, especially back when Panzerwerfers were 1-click-wipe-everything.
People almost never went T4 because everthing else is so damn good that they never bother teching up.
if you use all of your arsenal all you need is T1+T2 to win a game.
30 Jun 2016, 03:12 AM
#73
Posts: 362
Posted this in another thread quite recently:
Sometimes I wonder if Grenadiers could get the -40% received accuracy bonus Conscripts get at vet 3. Or at least slightly better vet bonuses.
IMO, this would improve balance with Ostheer vs. US or UK but would negatively affect the Ostheer/Soviet matchup.
Anyways, imo I think Ostheer needs the following changes:
- Pioneers need to be better at repairing stuff (so do Soviet Combat Engineers) or alternatively the newer factions need to be made worse at repairing stuff
- LeFH (and maybe PaK43) needs to be harder to kill (same with all other static howitzers)
- Ostwind just needs a buff. Don't want fuel cost reduction.
- 222 needs a complete redesign
- The Med Kit needs to be more useful
- 251 halftrack needs something. Unsure what. Think more armour would be a start but that's not going to change much.
- Pioneers back to five popculation please.
And, maybe most important, I think Ostheer needs some sort of tech tree redesign so they can counter light vehicles more easily (I'd love to see the Sniper and PaK get swapped, as I see that alleviating a number of balance issues) and also get units out into the field a little faster.
I also wonder if Grenadiers and maybe Panzer Grenadiers should become a little more expensive and a little more potent in combat. I feel like Ostheer is supposed to get quality units, but Grenadiers feel pretty mediocre compared to Allied WFA infantry. Feel like they should be a 280MP squad but really good at long range combat. Again, I'm aware this would skew Ostheer/Soviet balance. (Maybe Conscripts could become cheaper?)
Other thing is I'm not sure what to do with the Panzer IV. This unit feels reasonably powerful and very well balanced, but I'm also aware that the Brits have a much better vehicle with the 110 fuel Cromwell and that the US Sherman has more utility. Not sure if situation is fine or if nerfs/buffs need to be handed out.
Last comment is that I don't want to see five-man Grenadier squads. I feel like the four-man squads are part of the faction's aesthetic and I don't want to see all the factions get homogenized. I mean, four-man squads worked fine in CoH1 so I'm thinking that the number of models isn't actually the problem.
Sometimes I wonder if Grenadiers could get the -40% received accuracy bonus Conscripts get at vet 3. Or at least slightly better vet bonuses.
IMO, this would improve balance with Ostheer vs. US or UK but would negatively affect the Ostheer/Soviet matchup.
Anyways, imo I think Ostheer needs the following changes:
- Pioneers need to be better at repairing stuff (so do Soviet Combat Engineers) or alternatively the newer factions need to be made worse at repairing stuff
- LeFH (and maybe PaK43) needs to be harder to kill (same with all other static howitzers)
- Ostwind just needs a buff. Don't want fuel cost reduction.
- 222 needs a complete redesign
- The Med Kit needs to be more useful
- 251 halftrack needs something. Unsure what. Think more armour would be a start but that's not going to change much.
- Pioneers back to five popculation please.
And, maybe most important, I think Ostheer needs some sort of tech tree redesign so they can counter light vehicles more easily (I'd love to see the Sniper and PaK get swapped, as I see that alleviating a number of balance issues) and also get units out into the field a little faster.
I also wonder if Grenadiers and maybe Panzer Grenadiers should become a little more expensive and a little more potent in combat. I feel like Ostheer is supposed to get quality units, but Grenadiers feel pretty mediocre compared to Allied WFA infantry. Feel like they should be a 280MP squad but really good at long range combat. Again, I'm aware this would skew Ostheer/Soviet balance. (Maybe Conscripts could become cheaper?)
Other thing is I'm not sure what to do with the Panzer IV. This unit feels reasonably powerful and very well balanced, but I'm also aware that the Brits have a much better vehicle with the 110 fuel Cromwell and that the US Sherman has more utility. Not sure if situation is fine or if nerfs/buffs need to be handed out.
Last comment is that I don't want to see five-man Grenadier squads. I feel like the four-man squads are part of the faction's aesthetic and I don't want to see all the factions get homogenized. I mean, four-man squads worked fine in CoH1 so I'm thinking that the number of models isn't actually the problem.
30 Jun 2016, 03:32 AM
#74
Posts: 455
I just want to throw an idea out there, but why not have Battlephase 2 and/or 3 improve on the received accuracy of infantry units in small percentages? Then in Battlephase 1, it improves the health of infantry other than the sniper.
30 Jun 2016, 07:57 AM
#75
Posts: 181
Anyways, imo I think Ostheer needs the following changes:
- Pioneers need to be better at repairing stuff (so do Soviet Combat Engineers) or alternatively the newer factions need to be made worse at repairing stuff
- LeFH (and maybe PaK43) needs to be harder to kill (same with all other static howitzers)
- Ostwind just needs a buff. Don't want fuel cost reduction.
- 222 needs a complete redesign
- The Med Kit needs to be more useful
- 251 halftrack needs something. Unsure what. Think more armour would be a start but that's not going to change much.
- Pioneers back to five popculation please.
And, maybe most important, I think Ostheer needs some sort of tech tree redesign so they can counter light vehicles more easily (I'd love to see the Sniper and PaK get swapped, as I see that alleviating a number of balance issues) and also get units out into the field a little faster.
I also wonder if Grenadiers and maybe Panzer Grenadiers should become a little more expensive and a little more potent in combat. I feel like Ostheer is supposed to get quality units, but Grenadiers feel pretty mediocre compared to Allied WFA infantry. Feel like they should be a 280MP squad but really good at long range combat. Again, I'm aware this would skew Ostheer/Soviet balance. (Maybe Conscripts could become cheaper?)
Other thing is I'm not sure what to do with the Panzer IV. This unit feels reasonably powerful and very well balanced, but I'm also aware that the Brits have a much better vehicle with the 110 fuel Cromwell and that the US Sherman has more utility. Not sure if situation is fine or if nerfs/buffs need to be handed out.
Last comment is that I don't want to see five-man Grenadier squads. I feel like the four-man squads are part of the faction's aesthetic and I don't want to see all the factions get homogenized. I mean, four-man squads worked fine in CoH1 so I'm thinking that the number of models isn't actually the problem.
I agree with most of this.
Switching the Sniper and the Pak40 might be nasty for Ostheer against USF/UKF but those match-ups are the ones that seem to cause the most posts and could do with a look anyway.
"A 280MP squad...really good at long range combat" describes Infantry Sections. This is probably partially why there are complaints about Grens; using them as mainline combat infantry against UKF isn't a great idea.
Panzergrenadiers are actually already quite powerful (better DPS than upgraded Grens out to range 25/30). The only real change they need is better vet distribution. Moving half of their vet 2 received accuracy bonus to vet 1 and/or giving them a better vet ability is enough.
The Panzer IV will win any straight fight with the Cromwell and, barring crushing, seems to have better AI (it definitely has better MGs). The reason that the Cromwell is so powerful is because the Tank Commander upgrade allows the Cromwell to get the first shot off and its maneuverability allows it to flank the Panzer IV fairly easily. The Tank Commander needs a cost increase but the Cromwell is reasonably balanced otherwise (might require a small cost increase).
I think a good rule for balance suggestions is this:
"If you can't personally mod it in and you haven't met anyone who has, don't suggest it."
"If you can't personally mod it in and you haven't met anyone who has, don't suggest it."
30 Jun 2016, 08:18 AM
#76
Posts: 186
Grens need major changes, Kar98k just doesn't cut it against GarandRifles and StereoidEnfieldTommies. Maybe a five man G-43 equipped squad could be it for 290-300Manpower, comes at 1CP or even at 0CP in a doctrine, and also supplied to unused doctrines.
Name them Gebirgsjagers.
Name them Gebirgsjagers.
Whatever
30 Jun 2016, 09:57 AM
#77
Posts: 50
Oh my god this thread...
So many ppl whining about Wehrmacht, how on earth do you play this faction? Are you one of these "I build 1 MG, then I get 3 grens and put them all in a blob. And that pretty much explains my whole early + mid game
Ostherr is fine, there is just no unit that can be used effective with 0 support.
Just combine mg with 1, max. 2 grens, AT gun, pzgrens, reinforcement halftrack, 222, and either snip or mortar at the front(depends on map) as BASIC army and there you go
Oh and just a little secret: If you abandon the idea that OST can be played like the other factions, then you are on the right way
If you have like every t1+t2 unit on the field (WITHOUT SPAMMING ONE OF IT LOL) ostheer is pretty dominating the majority of the games if the player has much micro knowledge
A variousity of units on the field combined with the right building order to counter the enemy (predicting what the enemy is going to build next) is the key
Did you ever play with ostheer?
30 Jun 2016, 11:15 AM
#79
Posts: 1217
Ostheer remains the hardest and most unforgiving faction in the game.
Their units are high risk low rewad throughout the bank.
The units that formerly offered good lategame have been nerfed hard - too hard. Versus the weak Soviets that might have worked out. Versus USA and Brits they are thus horribly outclassed.
The most pressing issues that need to be fixed:
- PG StG44 needs a slight buff on range so it doesn´t turn into a downgrade from Grens. Volks StG44s don´t lose damage over range compared to the Kar98k. Why not the 340mp PGs?
- The Panzer IV either needs a cost reduction to 120 fuel or more pen.
- The Panther needs something and if it´s just a buff to OKW stats. Currently it is a no-go.
- The Tiger needs frontal armor.
Their units are high risk low rewad throughout the bank.
The units that formerly offered good lategame have been nerfed hard - too hard. Versus the weak Soviets that might have worked out. Versus USA and Brits they are thus horribly outclassed.
The most pressing issues that need to be fixed:
- PG StG44 needs a slight buff on range so it doesn´t turn into a downgrade from Grens. Volks StG44s don´t lose damage over range compared to the Kar98k. Why not the 340mp PGs?
- The Panzer IV either needs a cost reduction to 120 fuel or more pen.
- The Panther needs something and if it´s just a buff to OKW stats. Currently it is a no-go.
- The Tiger needs frontal armor.
30 Jun 2016, 11:24 AM
#80
Posts: 732
Just get vet2 222 with spotting scope so you get 120 sight range aka maphack and win the game.
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