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russian armor

Volks nerf

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2 Apr 2016, 05:37 AM
#61
avatar of Culainn

Posts: 66

jump backJump back to quoted post1 Apr 2016, 17:11 PMDomine
I'm interested... What about Volks is so op? Their vet, which is worse than Vet 3 of most other units? Their AI, which is worse than that of most other units? Maybe their Durability, which is, again, worse than that of most other units?

The only thing I can see is an overabundant Panzershreck.

Saying 'Oh it's 90 munitions' is kinda irrelevant, because OKW gets to spend those 90 munitions on a really good AT weapon, whereas other factions do not get this chance.


I'd rather have a Riflemen with 2 zooks for 10 munis more than a 1 shreck Volk. If there is any infantry OP at the moment, it is undoubtedly Riflemen.

Joseph
2 Apr 2016, 05:40 AM
#62
avatar of Culainn

Posts: 66


The additional Vet is OKWs redeeming factor for not being able to build caches.

No, the scavenge ability exists for that very reason.


False, unless you almost immediately lose the cache upon building it there is basically no way you can make up the amount of resources from scavenge as you might get from a cache.

Joseph
2 Apr 2016, 05:44 AM
#63
avatar of Culainn

Posts: 66

jump backJump back to quoted post1 Apr 2016, 04:42 AMClick
No nerf needed. I use volks a lot but lately I have been playing USF and blobing like hell because why not? I equip my rifleman blob with zooks and bars and they own opponents from the start to finish. If volks are nerfed then allies should be nerfed too. But as usual this thread will die a slow and painful death like other 1000+ thread on volks and allies infantry.


Riflemen are the most OP infantry in the game at the moment. Now that vet works properly they should have their buffs from last year reverted, including the zook accuracy.

Joseph
2 Apr 2016, 07:25 AM
#64
avatar of stalinqtxoxo420mlg

Posts: 54



Riflemen are the most OP infantry in the game at the moment. Now that vet works properly they should have their buffs from last year reverted, including the zook accuracy.

Joseph


not op enough to pull you out of the 2000+ rank
2 Apr 2016, 07:34 AM
#65
avatar of Culainn

Posts: 66



not op enough to pull you out of the 2000+ rank


I don't play USF all that often.

Joseph
2 Apr 2016, 07:45 AM
#66
avatar of Vuther
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 3103 | Subs: 1



I'd rather have a Riflemen with 2 zooks for 10 munis more than a 1 shreck Volk. If there is any infantry OP at the moment, it is undoubtedly Riflemen.

Joseph

You'd pay 10 more munitions to lose 40% of your squad's AI power to get a 61% chance of doing 100 damage and 37% chance of doing 160 damage against a PIV at max range (assuming it hits) instead of saving 10 munitions and 20% AI power to get an 88% chance of doing 120 damage and a 12% chance of 30 damage (assuming it hits)?

Well, you really shouldn't.
2 Apr 2016, 09:10 AM
#67
avatar of Culainn

Posts: 66

jump backJump back to quoted post2 Apr 2016, 07:45 AMVuther

You'd pay 10 more munitions to lose 40% of your squad's AI power to get a 61% chance of doing 100 damage and 37% chance of doing 160 damage against a PIV at max range (assuming it hits) instead of saving 10 munitions and 20% AI power to get an 88% chance of doing 120 damage and a 12% chance of 30 damage (assuming it hits)?

Well, you really shouldn't.


I don't feel one loses 40% of the squad's AI power, as the zooks are quite capable of instapopping infantry models in many situations, such as when the target squad is standing in front of a shotblocker. Often I find the zooks can be more effective than the m1 garand against infantry as it can take time to pop an infantry model with the rifles, but if a zook gets lucky at the beginning the enemy squad is instantly down 25% firepower for the whole fight.

Even still though, what is the expected damage in your armor scenario? Just going by your own numbers the expected damage is still higher for the zooks than a shreck, and with two chances to hit instead of one the average damage output will be more consistent, making the Rifle squad easier to use as its effectiveness will be easier to predict. And what happens to the numbers when one isn't at max range?

Joseph
2 Apr 2016, 13:43 PM
#68
avatar of Mindtraveller

Posts: 34

Permanently Banned
Culainn you've posted more than anyone else in this thread and have like the lowest rank, pls go.
2 Apr 2016, 14:37 PM
#69
avatar of KovuTalli

Posts: 332

If anyone are complaining about Volk's Anti-inf you are just silly. A ranger squad without SMG can win 2v1 vs volks and with SMG 3v1 (Vet 0 vs 3 vet 3+ volks) - That or just RNG hates me so hard.
2 Apr 2016, 16:46 PM
#70
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17891 | Subs: 8

If anyone are complaining about Volk's Anti-inf you are just silly. A ranger squad without SMG can win 2v1 vs volks and with SMG 3v1 (Vet 0 vs 3 vet 3+ volks) - That or just RNG hates me so hard.


Uuuuu an ELITE DOCTRINAL 400 MP AI SPECIALIST squad fares well vs 2x 250mp generalist squads!

Plus, just for you, checked that in cheat mod(as it smelled with bullshit so hard), so here are the results:

Long range: volks lose 2 models before annihilating ranges.
Short range: One squad will go down, rangers lose again.
2 Apr 2016, 18:21 PM
#71
avatar of KovuTalli

Posts: 332

Well I just had unlucky RNG then as it happened in a game this morning, wish Okw had some good SMG infantry (Sturms don't really count until they hit vet 2 or higher and ober44's are doctrinal and just not as good as they used to be IMO)
2 Apr 2016, 19:39 PM
#72
avatar of GenObi

Posts: 556

Honestly remove shreck and give them two needed upgrades
1. Give them Pazust
2. Give then MP40 Upgrade

Why? Well to starter no mainline infantry should be equipped with such a powerful weapon. The Mp40 will help against infantry.
2 Apr 2016, 20:46 PM
#73
avatar of MarkedRaptor

Posts: 320



I'd rather have a Riflemen with 2 zooks for 10 munis more than a 1 shreck Volk. If there is any infantry OP at the moment, it is undoubtedly Riflemen.

Joseph


No one would ever trade shreks for bazookas.
2 Apr 2016, 20:47 PM
#74
avatar of Kallipolan

Posts: 196

I'd like to see a pretty major nerf to Panzerschreck accuracy at long range. It's pretty stupid that a blob of 4 Volk can just walk up to a medium tank, shoot, fire 4 hits and then the tank needs to retreat or die. Volks should need to get dangerously close to be that reliably dangerous to armour.

And to all those saying Volks don't need a nerf: nerfs/buffs aren't just about overall faction winrate. As long as Volks are this good at everything, OKW will be a boring, one-note faction. If Volks are nerfed, OKW could be buffed in other ways that make them actually interesting.
2 Apr 2016, 22:42 PM
#75
avatar of Zyllen

Posts: 770



No one would ever trade shreks for bazookas.


I would. Zooks are better bang for buck.
2 Apr 2016, 22:56 PM
#76
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17891 | Subs: 8

jump backJump back to quoted post2 Apr 2016, 22:42 PMZyllen


I would. Zooks are better bang for buck.


Which custom mod you play then?
Let me guess, you'd pick con PTRS over zooks as well for their superior cost effectiveness?
2 Apr 2016, 23:12 PM
#77
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 5279



Which custom mod you play then?
Let me guess, you'd pick con PTRS over zooks as well for their superior cost effectiveness?

This is why Luchs superior AT than the puma
Lots of shots (most that will bounce) that also do less damage is FAR superior to slower firing, harder hitting shots.

This also why the m42 has been meta since release totally eclipsing the non doc zis.
3 Apr 2016, 00:58 AM
#78
avatar of ZombiFrancis

Posts: 2742



Which custom mod you play then?
Let me guess, you'd pick con PTRS over zooks as well for their superior cost effectiveness?


Bazookas can be better in Axis hands against Allied armor than they are in Allied hands against Axis armor. Especially in games where IS-2s or Pershings don't exist.

But at the same time, Panzerschrecks are far more powerful in Allied hands than they are in Axis hands.
3 Apr 2016, 03:20 AM
#79
avatar of Tobis
Senior Strategist Badge
Donator 11

Posts: 2307 | Subs: 4



Bazookas can be better in Axis hands against Allied armor than they are in Allied hands against Axis armor. Especially in games where IS-2s or Pershings don't exist.

But at the same time, Panzerschrecks are far more powerful in Allied hands than they are in Axis hands.

Same thing with USF at-gun versus the pak. Love that asymmetry that rewards stealing for both sides.



The problem is not the Schreck, fixing the problem by nerfing long range accuracy doesn't fix the problem and is a lazy solution. Schrecks are perfectly fine on Pgrens and don't need to be tones down. The problem is with the volks.
3 Apr 2016, 04:24 AM
#80
avatar of Hans G. Schultz

Posts: 875 | Subs: 2

It would be nice to add either PanzerJäger that start with 2 Panzerbüchses then upgrade to 2 panzerschrecks, or make volks take much longer to aim the panzerschreck.
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