Sturm pioneers are overpriced
5 Mar 2015, 15:21 PM
#21
1 
Posts: 1276
Well you can make the unit cost less but they would only be a little better than a con squad. If u want cheaper units decrease its effectiveness to balance it out vs other starting infantry.
5 Mar 2015, 15:22 PM
#22
Posts: 1604 | Subs: 3
Keep in mind that a sturmpioneer with a sweeper repairs as fast as 2.5 engineers. It gets even faster at vet 2 and vet 4 i believe.
Afaik
sturmpio repair rate = (3.0 hp + 1 hp with upgrade)*1.33 at vet 2 = 5.32 hp
pio/sov eng/us vehicle crew = (1.6 hp)*1.625 at vet 2 = 2.6 hp (vehicle crew gets only 56 % repair speed)
Rear Ech/US assault eng = (2.0 hp)*1,5 at vet2 = 3 hp
Taking the popcap into account roughly equals 2 builder squads (10 popcap) = 1 Sturmpio squad ( 9 popcap)
If you need to know stats of certain unit: http://stat.coh2.hu
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5 Mar 2015, 15:41 PM
#23
Posts: 627
What the hell.
They have four assault rifles. They clear buildings in seconds. They have mines, super wire, swappable sweepers, immense repair speed, drop med kits and even get a grenade with vet.
With one or two squads and appropriate volks support they are absolutely lethal. With a bit of vet they are 100% your best defence against shock troops too foolish to use smoke nades when they advance, as the range advantage means you can chew massive chunks of their HP off as they close in, just remember to park behind cover and let them come.
Sturmpios are fricking amazing.
They have four assault rifles. They clear buildings in seconds. They have mines, super wire, swappable sweepers, immense repair speed, drop med kits and even get a grenade with vet.
With one or two squads and appropriate volks support they are absolutely lethal. With a bit of vet they are 100% your best defence against shock troops too foolish to use smoke nades when they advance, as the range advantage means you can chew massive chunks of their HP off as they close in, just remember to park behind cover and let them come.
Sturmpios are fricking amazing.
5 Mar 2015, 15:54 PM
#24
Posts: 1225
What the hell.
They have four assault rifles. They clear buildings in seconds. They have mines, super wire, swappable sweepers, immense repair speed, drop med kits and even get a grenade with vet.
With one or two squads and appropriate volks support they are absolutely lethal. With a bit of vet they are 100% your best defence against shock troops too foolish to use smoke nades when they advance, as the range advantage means you can chew massive chunks of their HP off as they close in, just remember to park behind cover and let them come.
Sturmpios are fricking amazing.
Could you stop it already with this fanboyismo please, there is nothing "amazing" about Sturmpios, they certainly do not stand out as a unit. They are an excellent repair squad that performs fine at early game infantry combat but reinforces slowly and scales poorly which makes them unsuitable as a mainline infantry choice, but hey, they dont need to be after the first five minutes. Thats all there is to it. Sturmpios are not under any circumstances a cost-effective unit against Shocks.
Overall, the unit is in a decent spot.
5 Mar 2015, 15:59 PM
#25
Posts: 627
Could you stop it already with this fanboyismo please, there is nothing "amazing" about Sturmpios, they certainly do not stand out as a unit. They are an excellent repair squad that performs fine at early game infantry combat but reinforces slowly and scales poorly which makes them unsuitable as a mainline infantry choice, but hey, they dont need to be after the first five minutes. Thats all there is to it. Sturmpios are not under any circumstances a cost-effective unit against Shocks.
Overall, the unit is in a decent spot.
Have you ever watched a shock squad try to advance through open ground through a sturmpio field of fire? It's a lot more damaging than you'd expect.
Seriously, though. Volks and their shrecks are a necessity, but that does not mean sturmpios aren't fantastic. Yes, they start to become less prominent as the game goes on, but they never stop being a massive threat. Flanking, building clearing, surprise garrisons, park them on retreat paths. Their DPS against is enormous and that's not something that changes.
I honestly love them. Yes, you can't use them as a battering ram like you would shock troops, but they never stop being a threat.
Not nerf worthy, just really really good at what they do.
5 Mar 2015, 16:07 PM
#26
Posts: 4630 | Subs: 2
Someone siad they don't scale well?
- -46% received accuracy
- +60% accuracy
How bad is that?
Let's compare them to Paras, pure fighting unit.
- -29% received accuracy
- +25% accuracy.
3 men SP can deal with 6 men Paras with LMGs at close/mid range. Dont belive me? I posted replay and screen somewhere. Just need a time to find it.
- -46% received accuracy
- +60% accuracy
How bad is that?
Let's compare them to Paras, pure fighting unit.
- -29% received accuracy
- +25% accuracy.
3 men SP can deal with 6 men Paras with LMGs at close/mid range. Dont belive me? I posted replay and screen somewhere. Just need a time to find it.
5 Mar 2015, 16:08 PM
#27
Posts: 17892 | Subs: 8
Could you stop it already with this fanboyismo please, there is nothing "amazing" about Sturmpios, they certainly do not stand out as a unit. They are an excellent repair squad that performs fine at early game infantry combat but reinforces slowly and scales poorly which makes them unsuitable as a mainline infantry choice, but hey, they dont need to be after the first five minutes. Thats all there is to it. Sturmpios are not under any circumstances a cost-effective unit against Shocks.
Overall, the unit is in a decent spot.
Sure there is nothing amazing about them.
That is if we conveniently forget about their amazing repair speed second to none in game by a LONG shot,
their amazing performance in relation to any other starting builder unit and their amazing concept of holstering sweeper to retain full combat potential as well as that sweeper boosting even more already vastly superior repair speed.
Other then that few amazing things about them I agree, nothing amazing at all.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
5 Mar 2015, 16:11 PM
#28
Posts: 420
OKW really does not need more buffs..
There are some okw units which could use a slight buff/overhaul, but sturmpios are certainly not one of them.
I will simply lol at anyone expecting such a change to a 2 year old general use infantry.
Equally possible are pershing for USF, IS-3 for soviets or ober nerf for OKW.
5 Mar 2015, 16:32 PM
#29
Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1
Someone siad they don't scale well?
- -46% received accuracy
- +60% accuracy
How bad is that?
Let's compare them to Paras, pure fighting unit.
- -29% received accuracy
- +25% accuracy.
3 men SP can deal with 6 men Paras with LMGs at close/mid range. Dont belive me? I posted replay and screen somewhere. Just need a time to find it.
They are very, very hard to vet up because of the high cost of the unit and the fact it's not likely to ever shoot and kill anything that's more expensive than it.
They only infantry squads in the game that cost more on the allies sides are Shocks and Para's.
And the fact that the OKW sweeper is worse than the Soviet sweeper for ~reasons~ is one of the reasons that Demo charges are so bloody amazing, with how jittery the game is most OKW players won't notice the demo charge till they are on top of it or almost on top of it and then it's bye bye 320+ MP.
Want my advice? Reduce the amount of veterncy they need to get to Vet up so they scale better into mid game and keep the price the same.
5 Mar 2015, 16:35 PM
#30
Posts: 4630 | Subs: 2
Hard to vet them? God... With such DPS is easy to vet them..
5 Mar 2015, 16:39 PM
#31
Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1
DPS ain't shit for nothing when your A. Stupid easy to squad wipe because someone at relic unironically thought 4 man squads + bunching mechanics was a smart idea and B. Your shooting at less expensive infantry.
Why do you think Volks vet so fast huh? Because they will always be shooting at more expensive units.
Why do you think Volks vet so fast huh? Because they will always be shooting at more expensive units.
5 Mar 2015, 16:42 PM
#32
Posts: 471
I read the thread title in expectation of a punchline. What are you talking about? Sturmpios are great and adequately priced too.
5 Mar 2015, 16:44 PM
#33
Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1
The joke is that people who think 4 men squads + current pathing and bunching mechanics are fine are mentally unsound.
5 Mar 2015, 16:55 PM
#34
Posts: 627
Vulnerability to explosive fire dependent on RNG does not make them any less lethal, their DPS any lower of their ability to wipe conscript squads in three second flat any less real.
Don't use them to lead the charge, and they vet up just fine. You start the game with them, they get plenty of time to murder in.
Don't use them to lead the charge, and they vet up just fine. You start the game with them, they get plenty of time to murder in.
5 Mar 2015, 16:57 PM
#35
Posts: 124
There's a trickiness at work here in my opinion. In the beginning of the game, sturmpios are most valuable in terms of their combat ability. At that point I believe their cost is justified. But as the game progresses and okw gets some vehicles (panther?), then I personally start to think of them as a utility unit.
It's difficult to muster the 320 for a unit that you mostly need to repair in the case that you lose your first sturmpio. I don't think I've made up my mind about this one yet.
It's difficult to muster the 320 for a unit that you mostly need to repair in the case that you lose your first sturmpio. I don't think I've made up my mind about this one yet.
5 Mar 2015, 17:02 PM
#36
Posts: 1637
There's a trickiness at work here in my opinion. In the beginning of the game, sturmpios are most valuable in terms of their combat ability. At that point I believe their cost is justified. But as the game progresses and okw gets some vehicles (panther?), then I personally start to think of them as a utility unit.
It's difficult to muster the 320 for a unit that you mostly need to repair in the case that you lose your first sturmpio. I don't think I've made up my mind about this one yet.
Which is why OKW have the option for a building that repairs too...
Sturmpios are fine. When used to their strengths they work great as early DPS and later as the best repair squad in the damn game.
I have used Sturmpios with repair kits to out repair damage from a Zis and 120MM for over 30 seconds while I rallied my infantry to repel the attack. The repair that they do is borderline retarded. They are seriously fine.
Otherwise if its such an issue make them just like Assault Engineers (read as weak) and lower their price and repair speed to mirror that.
The PTRS's are fine as they are. Whenever i'm up against Guard Infantry, I always have to be careful with my vehicles or the Guards will completely destroy them. Good range, good damage and fairly cheap; if anything, the PTRS should nerfed since it's ridiculously good for the price. Even in the hands of Conscripts, the PTRS's are extremely potent.
5 Mar 2015, 17:11 PM
#37
Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1
Vulnerability to explosive fire dependent on RNG does not make them any less lethal, their DPS any lower of their ability to wipe conscript squads in three second flat any less real.
Don't use them to lead the charge, and they vet up just fine. You start the game with them, they get plenty of time to murder in.
They don't vet up fast because they are almost always shooting less expensive units. It's math, not conjecture.
5 Mar 2015, 17:14 PM
#38
Posts: 144
They don't vet up fast because they are almost always shooting less expensive units. It's math, not conjecture.
Yep, but they shoot a TONS of less expensive units, and faster than most of them, and since the start of the game.
Can't say the same for RE or CE for instance.
5 Mar 2015, 17:15 PM
#39
Posts: 124
Which is why OKW have the option for a building that repairs too...
I'll rephrase that for you.
"And they also have a building to compliment the utility of the sturmpio." That's a good point but it isn't the "why" with respect to sturmpio cost.
5 Mar 2015, 17:18 PM
#40
Posts: 2053
A sturmpio essentially does double the work of any other engineer and thus has the respective cost.
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