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russian armor

M26 Pershing

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30 Jul 2014, 01:18 AM
#101
avatar of ThoseDeafMutes

Posts: 1026

While we're throwing in requests how about a doctrinal 3" AT gun?
30 Jul 2014, 13:34 PM
#102
avatar of $nuffy

Posts: 129

jump backJump back to quoted post26 Jul 2014, 00:25 AMIGOR
this is a sad thing to think about, i think we will never see a m26 on coh 2 ;\ , when the fucking ober have like 3 heavy tanks and is coming the tiger for ober...


All of you guys are bein' funny at least, not to say naive ;D

They have a 5 or so year business plan with this game; of course we'll eventually see Pershings, Jumbo's and I'm also positive - later on Jagdpanthers and some Königstiger Ace that will counter those lil' RC tanks perfectly fine.

As someone mentioned that M26 backed by a two Jacksons would be unstoppable ?!? Right..
Pershing when becomes available WILL be expensive, and I can imagine it in the long matches with 2 vs 2 and above players.. now imagine if you will - that "unstoppable force" attacked by a few vetted infantry squads with multiple schrecks backed by a KT, which is alas backed by a Jagdtiger, with puppchens scattered around to cover any open flanks. That sort of US hammer of might would be back in the base licking wounds or be scrap metal for OKW to scavenge in seconds.

The bigger issue is the mid and early game exploits that such grandiose long slugfest matches as of now make the extreme rarity.
30 Jul 2014, 14:58 PM
#103
avatar of varunax

Posts: 210

Honestly, adding the Jumbo doesn't really make any sense. The Easy Eight is an upgraded version of the Jumbo- these tanks got upgraded to Jumbo armor standard on top of being faster than a Jumbo.
30 Jul 2014, 16:39 PM
#104
avatar of Mr. Someguy

Posts: 4928

jump backJump back to quoted post30 Jul 2014, 14:58 PMvarunax
Honestly, adding the Jumbo doesn't really make any sense. The Easy Eight is an upgraded version of the Jumbo- these tanks got upgraded to Jumbo armor standard on top of being faster than a Jumbo.


This isn't true, the Easy Eight had decent armour, but nothing like the 4 - 5 inches of the Jumbo.
30 Jul 2014, 17:23 PM
#105
avatar of coh2player

Posts: 1571

The Easy-Eight had armor that was nothing special.

The Jumbo was the heavily armored model of the Sherman with Tiger level frontal armor that could defeat the common Pak40 75mm. The increased weight decreased mobility.

They were utility vehicles, used mainly in road marches to head off armor columns. The idea was that the jumbos would get hit first, and then the regular shermans would fan out.
30 Jul 2014, 17:35 PM
#106
avatar of Mr. Someguy

Posts: 4928

Well the Jumbo could bounce Tiger shots so.. They were also in high demand, some Tank Divisions even attempted to make their own when they failed to procure any. Those were called Expedient Jumbos, and made from extra armour, or armour from damaged Shermans and Panzers.
30 Jul 2014, 17:43 PM
#107
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17875 | Subs: 8

The Easy-Eight had armor that was nothing special.

The Jumbo was the heavily armored model of the Sherman with Tiger level frontal armor that could defeat the common Pak40 75mm. The increased weight decreased mobility.

They were utility vehicles, used mainly in road marches to head off armor columns. The idea was that the jumbos would get hit first, and then the regular shermans would fan out.


Easy eight had exactly the same armor as jumbo.
178mm of effective frontal armor for both.
30 Jul 2014, 17:48 PM
#108
avatar of Mr. Someguy

Posts: 4928

jump backJump back to quoted post30 Jul 2014, 17:43 PMKatitof
Easy eight had exactly the same armor as jumbo.
178mm of effective frontal armor for both.


I don't know how much the Easy Eight had exactly, but I did find a source that says 2 inches. Sources on the Jumbo say 4 inches, 4.5 inches, or 5.5 inches. Regardless, at least twice as thick as the E8. 7 inches like you cited was on the turret mantle of the Jumbo.
30 Jul 2014, 17:53 PM
#109
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17875 | Subs: 8

Both final models of jumbo and ez8 had 5.5 inches.
30 Jul 2014, 17:57 PM
#110
avatar of Affe

Posts: 578



I don't know how much the Easy Eight had exactly, but I did find a source that says 2 inches. Sources on the Jumbo say 4 inches, 4.5 inches, or 5.5 inches. Regardless, at least twice as thick as the E8. 7 inches like you cited was on the turret mantle of the Jumbo.

The normal M4 Sherman had 51mm frontal armor.
The M4A3(76)W E8 "Easy Eight" had 64mm frontal armor.
The M4A3 E2 "Jumbo" Sherman had 102mm frontal armor.(Same like Pershing)
The M36 "Jackson" had 38mm frontal armor.(like wolverine)
The M18 "Hellcat" had 13mm frontal armor.
30 Jul 2014, 18:18 PM
#111
avatar of The Soldier

Posts: 218

Where is Katitof getting that information? Seriously. The Easy Eight never had that kind of armor strapped to it. It might have had a bit of extra armor welded to the front (over the crew hatches and on the side covering the ammunition storage), but hardly enough to make it 102mm of steel.

There was a "Jumbo 76" (as I've gotten use to calling it in my Men of War days) that was a Sherman Jumbo armed with a 76mm gun. But the Easy Eight never had 102mm of frontal armor.
30 Jul 2014, 18:20 PM
#112
avatar of coh2player

Posts: 1571

It's difficult to say, as the US army rarely encountered Tiger Is in 44-45. The 3 Tiger I bats were used in Normandy but primarily in the UK/CW sector. They were already being refitted with Tiger IIs by the time the falaise pocket closed.

The Sherman jumbos were issued pro-rata in platoons to US Sherman battalions. They were not that popular as they had less operational readiness and the weight stressed the Sherman's components too much. (lower than the superb 90-95% that US tank battalions generally had). The Sherman was not designed to carry that kind of weight.

Well the Jumbo could bounce Tiger shots so.. They were also in high demand, some Tank Divisions even attempted to make their own when they failed to procure any. Those were called Expedient Jumbos, and made from extra armour, or armour from damaged Shermans and Panzers.

30 Jul 2014, 18:32 PM
#113
avatar of Affe

Posts: 578

It's difficult to say, as the US army rarely encountered Tiger Is in 44-45. The 3 Tiger I bats were used in Normandy but primarily in the UK/CW sector. They were already being refitted with Tiger IIs by the time the falaise pocket closed.

The Sherman jumbos were issued pro-rata in platoons to US Sherman battalions. They were not that popular as they had less operational readiness and the weight stressed the Sherman's components too much. (lower than the superb 90-95% that US tank battalions generally had). The Sherman was not designed to carry that kind of weight.



In the Battle of the Bulge the Wehrmacht had 86 King Tigers and 35 Tiger I. The Tiger I were still in Service in late 44.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Bulge
30 Jul 2014, 18:38 PM
#114
avatar of Affe

Posts: 578

Where is Katitof getting that information? Seriously. The Easy Eight never had that kind of armor strapped to it. It might have had a bit of extra armor welded to the front (over the crew hatches and on the side covering the ammunition storage), but hardly enough to make it 102mm of steel.

There was a "Jumbo 76" (as I've gotten use to calling it in my Men of War days) that was a Sherman Jumbo armed with a 76mm gun. But the Easy Eight never had 102mm of frontal armor.

Katitof is talking BS(as always).
The easy 8 is famous for his high Speed if he would have the same armor like the Jumbo than he would be slow as fuck.
Sherman "Easy Eight" weight: 33650 kilograms
Sherman "Jumbo" weight: 42672 kilograms
30 Jul 2014, 18:40 PM
#115
avatar of coh2player

Posts: 1571

I've studied the battle of the bulge and I don't remember any Tiger Is being actually used in combat.

Some of the Tiger IIs were encountered in the 6th SS army's sector (attached to KG Peiper in La Gleize and elsewhere) but most the battalion did not manage to engage US forces in combat.
30 Jul 2014, 18:42 PM
#116
avatar of Affe

Posts: 578

I've studied the battle of the bulge and I don't remember any Tiger Is being actually used in combat.

Some of the Tiger IIs were encountered in the 6th SS army's sector (attached to KG Peiper in La Gleize and elsewhere) but most the battalion did not manage to engage US forces in combat.

Then you remember wrong.
30 Jul 2014, 18:43 PM
#117
avatar of coh2player

Posts: 1571

Where exactly were the Tiger I's deployed then?
30 Jul 2014, 18:47 PM
#118
avatar of Affe

Posts: 578

Where exactly were the Tiger I's deployed then?

Tiger I, Tiger II, Jagdpanther and Sturmtiger in the "Battle of the Bulge".
1. SS-Pz.Div. LSSAH with s.SS-Pz.Abt. 501: 45x Tiger II
12. SS-Pz.Div. HJ with 1./s.H.Pz.Jg.Abt. 560: 14x Jagdpanther
246. V.Gren.Div. with 3./s.H.Pz.Jg.Abt. 519: 13x Jagdpanther
s.Pz.Abt. 506: 41x Tiger II, 6x Tiger I
Pz.Lehr-Div. with 1./ s.H.Pz.Jg.Abt. 559: 8x Jagdpanther
9. Pz.Div. with s.Pz.Abt.(Fkl.) 301: 29x Tiger I
Stu.Mrs.Kp. 1000: 4x Sturmtiger
Stu.Mrs.Kp. 1001: 4x Sturmtiger
30 Jul 2014, 18:48 PM
#119
avatar of coh2player

Posts: 1571

That doesn't mean that they were engaged in combat.

Most of the 501th SS' tigers did not fight at all.

The 506th had little presence in the battle as well.
30 Jul 2014, 19:04 PM
#120
avatar of Affe

Posts: 578

That doesn't mean that they were engaged in combat.

Most of the 501th SS' tigers did not fight at all.

The 506th had little presence in the battle as well.

The 506th were in Heavy fightning already before the "battle of the bulge" in "Operation Queen"(German defensive victory) when they fight against US tanks at Puffendorf.King Tigers opened fire from high range against the US tanks.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Queen

Ninth Army's advance through the Rur plains
..............
Meanwhile in the north 2nd Armored Division also had commenced its attack on Gereonsweiler and Linnich. The advance was very steady, and already on the next day the towns Puffendorf and Immendorf were taken. This alarmed the German command and Rundstedt authorized the release of the 9th Panzer Division for a heavy armored counterattack against the two towns. Attached to this unit was the schwere Panzerabteilung 506 (506th Heavy Tank Battalion) with about 36 King Tiger tanks. At Immersdorf, the Germans were able to break into the town, but were soon repelled at close quarter fighting at dawn. The main fighting however was at Puffendorf. Since 2nd Armored Division also wanted to continue its advance towards Gereonsweiler, the division was caught in the open when about 30 German tanks approached it. In the ensuing battle, the Americans were pushed back into Puffendorf with heavy losses. Fighting continued then around the towns. German losses for this day were 11 tanks, while the 2nd Armored Division lost about 57 tanks in the fighting.

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