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russian armor

M26 Pershing

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25 Jul 2014, 00:13 AM
#1
avatar of All Aces

Posts: 29

I'm sure this has been brought up several times, but I just wanted to bring it up again to get some more up-to-date information. Is there, or has there, been any talk of possibly adding the tank to the US Faction? I understand that many people are against the addition of a heavy for the US because they are centered around flexibility and speed (or some other form of the word).

The thing that I think calls out for a heavy in their arsenal is that there is no real spearhead that the US have. Some would argue that the US are centered around their infantry, and their riflemen are their spearhead. However, as the game progresses, this isn't exactly feasible, especially when the Germans field some of their heavy tanks, that can punish infantry effectively, while soaking large amounts of damage from AT.

If Relic were to add a commander into the mix that allowed for a Pershing call-in it would add a lot of variety to the strategies of the US. I feel as if right now the basic US strategy is to field as many riflemen squads as possible, upgrade their weapon platforms, then wait for your Easy 8's and Jackson's. To me, it would add some interesting counter-play if a heavy tank were to be added, allowing it to become a spearhead for advances, while your tank destroyers bring up the rear or flank.

I don't feel that it would make the US overpowered in any way, as the commander would have drawbacks, just as it did in vCoH. In vCoH, going Armor doctrine was essentially a waiting game, you had to hold as much as you could while waiting for the opportunity to call in your heavy, which I thought was good for some circumstances, and bad for others that may call for a more aggressive doctrine such as Airborne. I feel like it would be the same for CoH2.

What are your guys' thoughts? I just want a US tank that isn't made of styrofoam :(

*Fixed this so it isn't a huge wall of text.
25 Jul 2014, 00:21 AM
#2
avatar of JHeartless

Posts: 1637

I dont see why not. OKW is meant to have Elite units yet they have a doctrine with P4s.

Why not a doctrine with the Pershing?
25 Jul 2014, 00:25 AM
#3
avatar of TheMightyCthulu

Posts: 127

Paragraphs, man... paragraphs.
25 Jul 2014, 00:29 AM
#4
avatar of __deleted__

Posts: 1225

Why not? And I bet you a substantial amount of dough Relic has this in the works at least mid-to long term. Even if they had to do this scratch, I don't think it would be terribly difficult: Just take IS-2 profile, give it a bit less HP, a bit higher ROF with more penetration but less AOE, voila.
25 Jul 2014, 00:46 AM
#5
avatar of braciszek

Posts: 2053

Why not? And I bet you a substantial amount of dough Relic has this in the works at least mid-to long term. Even if they had to do this scratch, I don't think it would be terribly difficult: Just take IS-2 profile, give it a bit less HP, a bit higher ROF with more penetration but less AOE, voila.


I fear for the design of units, and now I know why things are usually released fairly unbalanced...
25 Jul 2014, 00:50 AM
#6
avatar of __deleted__

Posts: 1225



I fear for the design of units, and now I know why things are usually released fairly unbalanced...

Sorry, don't understand. English is not my native language - could you rephrase that?
25 Jul 2014, 00:51 AM
#7
avatar of theblitz6794

Posts: 395

It shouldn't be a priority for Relic over balancing.

But I don't see the harm of having a heavy armor commander for the USA. Maybe 76mm shermans upgrades, easy eights, and finally m26s.

M18 hellcat could be added somewhere too.

25 Jul 2014, 01:04 AM
#8
avatar of Jinseual

Posts: 598

A Pershing would be a great addition. It would be the Tiger or IS2 (or the so called I win heavy tanks some people call it ) of the US army. It would be the easy micro late game unit for the Americans since M36 and Sherman combo are pretty hard to pull off compared to other late game factions.

I heard Relic is working on it, and I would be shocked if Relic wouldn't make one at all.

There can also be very powerful late game combination with the Pershing. The one Pershing to absorb all the damage and squad wipe ( all heavy tanks do that, heh Relic logic ) while 3 Jacksons behind it annihilate everything armored.

I want the Pershing to be just like the Tiger in terms of Armor, damage, splash damage. I don't want to see a heavily armored Jackson that would be OP.
25 Jul 2014, 01:05 AM
#9
avatar of Mr. Someguy

Posts: 4928

But I don't see the harm of having a heavy armor commander for the USA. Maybe 76mm shermans upgrades, easy eights, and finally m26s.


Dear god no, that would be ungodly overpowered.
25 Jul 2014, 01:09 AM
#10
avatar of JHeartless

Posts: 1637

A Pershing would be a great addition. It would be the Tiger or IS2 (or the so called I win heavy tanks some people call it ) of the US army. It would be the easy micro late game unit for the Americans since M36 and Sherman combo are pretty hard to pull off compared to other late game factions.

I heard Relic is working on it, and I would be shocked if Relic wouldn't make one at all.

There can also be very powerful late game combination with the Pershing. The one Pershing to absorb all the damage and squad wipe ( all heavy tanks do that, heh Relic logic ) while 3 Jacksons behind it annihilate everything armored.

I want the Pershing to be just like the Tiger in terms of Armor, damage, splash damage. I don't want to see a heavily armored Jackson that would be OP.


I would want it to be just a meatshield for balance. Because of that EXACT Scenerio. Not as good as an IS2 not as good as a Tiger when it comes to killing things. But a damage sponge so you can sneak in the Jack.
25 Jul 2014, 01:15 AM
#11
avatar of Mr. Someguy

Posts: 4928

Personally I don't want to see any M26 Pershings, it goes against the whole faction design. It'd be like if OKW got a Commander that gave them 100% fuel income. It'd also be overpowered since the M36 exists as a stock unit, so that commander would have to disable building the M36 because the Pershing + M36 combo would be incredibly powerful.

Personally the heaviest thing I want to see for Americans is the Sherman Jumbo, which was made in much larger numbers and sometimes field converted to 76mm guns, which could make for a very formidable breakthrough tank.
25 Jul 2014, 01:25 AM
#12
avatar of ThoseDeafMutes

Posts: 1026

The Easy 8 is basically a Pershing lite - finally a tank that can take a couple of hits and deal solid damage. The Pershing would be slower firing, slower moving and more expensive, but also have higher armor, more HP and the same 90mm gun that the Jackson has.

I fear that if we do get Pershing, every single USA team will just go Persh doc / Easy 8 doc as a tag team though, lol.

Bring on the Calliope doctrine too pls.
25 Jul 2014, 02:45 AM
#13
avatar of Mr. Someguy

Posts: 4928

Easy Eight is more of a light Panther. The armour is better than every medium tank (bar Vet 2 WM Panzer IV), best penetration of any medium tank, and good mobility.

If you want a Pershing lite, a Jumbo would better suit that. Frontal armour that could bounce Tiger shells combined with a 76mm Gun (not factory standard, but a very common addition later on).
25 Jul 2014, 02:51 AM
#14
avatar of braciszek

Posts: 2053

Good thing USA had lots of sherman variants that can be put int CoH2.

A sherman jumbo would be the next step up from the Easy eight, and i can only imagine what it would do to a Tiger, nevertheless the panther if it is equipped with a 76mm gun.
25 Jul 2014, 02:56 AM
#15
avatar of Rogers

Posts: 1210 | Subs: 1

Relic has said that the Pershing or a heavy tank is not something they want the new American army to have. So I doubt we will see it.
25 Jul 2014, 03:04 AM
#16
avatar of reefermadness

Posts: 43

jump backJump back to quoted post25 Jul 2014, 02:56 AMRogers
Relic has said that the Pershing or a heavy tank is not something they want the new American army to have. So I doubt we will see it.


To the OP it wouldn't bring a lot of "new" strategies. It'd be back to EFA in COH2 with Tiger call ins vs 85s. T1-T2 into call ins.

Imagine if USF could just spam riflemen with zooks/bars until they got a pershing to "act as a meatshield" as the infantry just rapes all vehicles in the vicinity.

Just no.
25 Jul 2014, 03:12 AM
#17
avatar of All Aces

Posts: 29



To the OP it wouldn't bring a lot of "new" strategies. It'd be back to EFA in COH2 with Tiger call ins vs 85s. T1-T2 into call ins.

Imagine if USF could just spam riflemen with zooks/bars until they got a pershing to "act as a meatshield" as the infantry just rapes all vehicles in the vicinity.

Just no.


Well to be fair I don't necessarily think that if you were to solely have the Pershing and infantry that it would be able to sponge damage from all enemy AT sources long enough for the infantry to kill everything in the area.

I don't know I guess I'm just a tank nut and I like the prospect of heavy tanks. Maybe I should just play World of Tanks every once in a while to sate that haha.
nee
25 Jul 2014, 03:19 AM
#18
avatar of nee

Posts: 1216

I can imagine the Pershing being what the Tiger is, while the Jackson is a Panther/ StuG in terms of role. It's not like the Tiger or King Tiger has the range of the Elephant or Panther despite the high calibre.

IMO a Calliope should be part of an artillery doctrine, while the the Pershing is part of a breakthrough doctrine and not merely a plethora of heavy tanks say, I dunno, Rangers...
25 Jul 2014, 03:30 AM
#19
avatar of Mr. Someguy

Posts: 4928

I still advocate the M4A3E2 Jumbo as a breakthrough vehicle, rather than the rarer Pershing which wasn't the staple of US Forces in WW2, unlike the Sherman.
25 Jul 2014, 03:39 AM
#20
avatar of All Aces

Posts: 29

I still advocate the M4A3E2 Jumbo as a breakthrough vehicle, rather than the rarer Pershing which wasn't the staple of US Forces in WW2, unlike the Sherman.


That is true. However, given that the context of the expansion is towards the end of the war, I feel like the Pershing would still fit historically. If I recall correctly, they actually fielded some of them towards the end of the war.
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