Good point, early m3 spam dont have efficient counter...
You wast muni with grens shereks to kill the car, and dont pick lmg (because if the soviet player are a good one, you need shereks and more, try to stay live with few deads, holding fuel, with crazy m3 spam + flames is very hard)...
Maybe scout car in early game without up cannon upgrade will be good??? Or the half track???
This is a good early game balance example...
In mid and late game is more hard to see, many ways in this time...
Worst balance ever . soviet domination
9 Jun 2014, 17:26 PM
#81
Posts: 503
Permanently Banned
9 Jun 2014, 18:00 PM
#82
Posts: 1637
^
Maybe cheap 5 man squads then? Eg. 200 Manpower, rifles, no weapons upgrades/no AT, single grenade muni, same HP/armor as grens, DPS like 5 man conscript squad.
To me, the best balance thing they did was mirror the T-34/76 with the Panzer IV G. The core units of the game- medium tanks and the core infantry squad- shouldn't be dramatically asymmetrical I find. Everything else that supports them of course should be more asymmetrical.
Good point. And I see nothing wrong with larger non doctrinal Ost squads personally.
But I wouldn't agree that core infantry squads aren't dramatically asymmetrical. Because the LMG exists and the PPSH isnt worth a goddamn unless your on Stalingrad (which I veto any damn way).
The PTRS's are fine as they are. Whenever i'm up against Guard Infantry, I always have to be careful with my vehicles or the Guards will completely destroy them. Good range, good damage and fairly cheap; if anything, the PTRS should nerfed since it's ridiculously good for the price. Even in the hands of Conscripts, the PTRS's are extremely potent.
9 Jun 2014, 18:26 PM
#83
Posts: 1304 | Subs: 13
PPSH is its own issue since its so bad at anywhere but melee range meaning Shock are terrible for their cost, even with armour.
Shocktroops should honestly be cheaper or let their PPSH have a bit more damage range than the ones used by conscripts. Since they have to be touching people to do damage, and its shock troops, most people will likely retreat meaning their only really got at killing off approaching infantry or weapon crews, something conscripts already do. I haven't seen shocks deployed in I don't know how long.
The only real issue I have with Soviets vs Ost in terms of balance is the M3 and mines and maybe the sniper on certain maps.
Shocktroops should honestly be cheaper or let their PPSH have a bit more damage range than the ones used by conscripts. Since they have to be touching people to do damage, and its shock troops, most people will likely retreat meaning their only really got at killing off approaching infantry or weapon crews, something conscripts already do. I haven't seen shocks deployed in I don't know how long.
The only real issue I have with Soviets vs Ost in terms of balance is the M3 and mines and maybe the sniper on certain maps.
9 Jun 2014, 19:16 PM
#84
7 
Posts: 1664
Good point. And I see nothing wrong with larger non doctrinal Ost squads personally.
But I wouldn't agree that core infantry squads aren't dramatically asymmetrical. Because the LMG exists and the PPSH isnt worth a goddamn unless your on Stalingrad (which I veto any damn way).
Think of purchasing PPSH for your Conscript as giving them melee weapons. If you use true-sight and flanking to get them in close they will prevail in close-combat. Also, going PPSH doctrine doesn't mean you must kit all of your squads with them.
9 Jun 2014, 19:22 PM
#85
Posts: 783 | Subs: 3
Think of purchasing PPSH for your Conscript as giving them melee weapons. If you use true-sight and flanking to get them in close they will prevail in close-combat. Also, going PPSH doctrine doesn't mean you must kit all of your squads with them.
No one seems to understand this.
That idiot thought he won. In fact, he was wrong. Completely mistaken.No M3 he what things are not，just one moron.
The German oil scarcity, rare tanks cannot fight the Allied torrent. Kill the house to kill the German oil.
Every time lose may feel bad. Probably not the word lose your subconscious. Maybe I win you Not for the first time Maybe you you should go to recall,
The German oil scarcity, rare tanks cannot fight the Allied torrent. Kill the house to kill the German oil.
Every time lose may feel bad. Probably not the word lose your subconscious. Maybe I win you Not for the first time Maybe you you should go to recall,
9 Jun 2014, 20:20 PM
#86
Posts: 1637
No one seems to understand this.
I do and I dont. I just dont see them as worth it. I do much better with vanilla scripts. Because they will still have the ability to get squad whipes due to bad play.
When you have PPSH the T button is a magical force field. The LMG is really a no brainer.
The PTRS's are fine as they are. Whenever i'm up against Guard Infantry, I always have to be careful with my vehicles or the Guards will completely destroy them. Good range, good damage and fairly cheap; if anything, the PTRS should nerfed since it's ridiculously good for the price. Even in the hands of Conscripts, the PTRS's are extremely potent.
9 Jun 2014, 20:32 PM
#87
Posts: 357
You could always start making maps. World Builder is perfectly balanced. I've never lost a match in it.
9 Jun 2014, 20:36 PM
#88
Posts: 4928
PPSh's need more range. The dropoff is so harsh that if the 2 members on each end of a Shock Squad were to shoot at each other, they'd only be doing so with ~20% efficiency. If they moved forward a few steps, it'd be 100% efficiency. The Length between max damage and Min damage is about that of a T-70 from end to end, only 5 (in-game) meters. The dropoff is that harsh.
all you filthy hotchkiss lovers need to l2p #TeamPanzerIII
> Kriegsbeute Doctrine|Partisan Rework|British Infantry Rework|Soviet Assault Squad <
9 Jun 2014, 20:41 PM
#89
Posts: 915
Sov=easymode..
Been saying it for months!
Been saying it for months!
9 Jun 2014, 21:29 PM
#90
Posts: 1571
I think they are pretty asymmetrical. The cons are a bit of low DPS meat-shield unit that can be upgraded with various things. The LMG Grens are a bit of a high DPS glass cannon unit when dealing with explosions.
IF there was 5 man 'Training battalion', I can largely see these being used as frequently as Grens. Grens/PzG would do the DPS, while the Trainees cap/soak it up.
IF there was 5 man 'Training battalion', I can largely see these being used as frequently as Grens. Grens/PzG would do the DPS, while the Trainees cap/soak it up.
But I wouldn't agree that core infantry squads aren't dramatically asymmetrical. Because the LMG exists and the PPSH isnt worth a goddamn unless your on Stalingrad (which I veto any damn way).
9 Jun 2014, 21:36 PM
#91
Posts: 17895 | Subs: 8
IF there was 5 man 'Training battalion', I can largely see these being used as frequently as Grens. Grens/PzG would do the DPS, while the Trainees cap/soak it up.
Its in, its called Osttruppen and its not used at all.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
9 Jun 2014, 22:08 PM
#92
Posts: 1637
Its in, its called Osttruppen and its not used at all.
Someone tell Albus. He just trolled me with them
That Wiley Harry Potter fan! I was so abused...its like the Spanish Inquisition...no one expects the Ostruppen!The PTRS's are fine as they are. Whenever i'm up against Guard Infantry, I always have to be careful with my vehicles or the Guards will completely destroy them. Good range, good damage and fairly cheap; if anything, the PTRS should nerfed since it's ridiculously good for the price. Even in the hands of Conscripts, the PTRS's are extremely potent.
9 Jun 2014, 22:11 PM
#93
Posts: 17895 | Subs: 8
Someone tell Albus. He just trolled me with them
Well, then he probably is the only one.
I want to love osttruppen but they disappoint me so much ever since they are a 0cp call-in.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
9 Jun 2014, 23:57 PM
#94
Posts: 1637
Well, then he probably is the only one.
I want to love osttruppen but they disappoint me so much ever since they are a 0cp call-in.
Quick Map grap unit better than Pio Spam and great meatshields against M3s and Snipers. They arent useless. And they can reman weapon teams etc etc you know the rest...
But since there is no mighty Tiger in that doctrine its not AS viable in the Meta I think. The Ostruppen may suck but they are better than Pios imho.
The PTRS's are fine as they are. Whenever i'm up against Guard Infantry, I always have to be careful with my vehicles or the Guards will completely destroy them. Good range, good damage and fairly cheap; if anything, the PTRS should nerfed since it's ridiculously good for the price. Even in the hands of Conscripts, the PTRS's are extremely potent.
10 Jun 2014, 01:00 AM
#95
Posts: 1304 | Subs: 13
The only Ostruppen I would get would be the ones from the mobile defense doc, simply because they have a chance at getting an LMG. They go from zero to hero.
10 Jun 2014, 01:31 AM
#96
Posts: 2487 | Subs: 21
I do and I dont. I just dont see them as worth it. I do much better with vanilla scripts. Because they will still have the ability to get squad whipes due to bad play.
When you have PPSH the T button is a magical force field. The LMG is really a no brainer.
+1
10 Jun 2014, 21:42 PM
#97
Posts: 503
Permanently Banned
Well, then he probably is the only one.
I want to love osttruppen but they disappoint me so much ever since they are a 0cp call-in.
Osttruppen dont kill anything, just die..
10 Jun 2014, 22:15 PM
#98
7 Posts: 1664
Osttruppen dont kill anything, just die..
Just like a healing bunker isn't meant to reinforce, dirt cheap Ossttrupen aren't meant to bleed or wipe units. They are meant to cap points, absorb damage and re-crew abandoned weapons teams.
That doesn't mean they are worth fielding right now.
10 Jun 2014, 22:42 PM
#99
Posts: 2819
All posts made are about situations in 2v2's. Not a 1v1 player.
11 Jun 2014, 11:26 AM
#100
Posts: 1130
horrida flamma bella
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