US paratroopers
26 Apr 2024, 01:28 AM
#1
Posts: 374
US paratroopers m1 carbine fires like a bolt action rifle. The carbines should be reworked to have a high fire rate and dps curve changed to be a better close to mid range option.
26 Apr 2024, 05:59 AM
#2
Posts: 17892 | Subs: 8
So, exactly what they are now?
Rate of fire depends on range as well, closer they shoot faster.
Rate of fire depends on range as well, closer they shoot faster.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
26 Apr 2024, 08:21 AM
#3
Posts: 1307
So, exactly what they are now?
Rate of fire depends on range as well, closer they shoot faster.
I see what OP is talking about. At close range the carbines put out 33 RPM where a standard panzergren K98 puts out 27 RPM.
Once you get to mid and long range, the carbines have a much higher RPM than bolt actions.
Still, the DPS curve is basically just that of a bolt action.
EDIT: Oops. I didn't realize DAKzergren K98 is such an outlier... Grenadier K98 close RPM is 19.
"And how we burned in the camps later, thinking: What would things have been like if every Security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive and had to say good-bye to his family?..The Organs would very quickly have suffered a shortage of officers and transport and... the cursed machine would have ground to a halt! If...if...We didn't love freedom enough...We purely and simply deserved everything that happened afterward.”― Aleksandr I. Solzhenitsyn , The Gulag Archipelago 1918–1956
26 Apr 2024, 08:37 AM
#4
Posts: 374
So, exactly what they are now?
Rate of fire depends on range as well, closer they shoot faster.
Maybe do a little research before you spoutbs.
https://coh3stats.com/explorer/dps
The m1 carbine currently has higher dps than the garand at Max range, and lower than point blank range.
US paras should perform like DAK panzergrens, high dps close and worse far than garand. This way they're not just a worse rifleman with higher hp.
26 Apr 2024, 08:54 AM
#5
Posts: 374
So, exactly what they are now?
Rate of fire depends on range as well, closer they shoot faster.
Maybe do a little research before you spout bs.
https://coh3stats.com/explorer/dps
The m1 carbine currently has higher dps than the garand at Max range, and lower than point blank range.
US paras should perform like DAK panzergrens, high dps close and worse far than garand. This way they're not just a worse rifleman with higher hp.
26 Apr 2024, 14:55 PM
#6
Posts: 943
Paratroopers are meant to be used at mid-long range (esp with rdy-to-upgrade M1919A6s). Getting close is not recommended, especially with how much CQC stuff is out there. Idk if you're used to them in COH2 with Thompsons but they're a different unit in COH3.
Rangers exist for all your close-mid needs.
Rangers exist for all your close-mid needs.
27 Apr 2024, 01:14 AM
#7
Posts: 374
Paratroopers are meant to be used at mid-long range (esp with rdy-to-upgrade M1919A6s). Getting close is not recommended, especially with how much CQC stuff is out there. Idk if you're used to them in COH2 with Thompsons but they're a different unit in COH3.
Rangers exist for all your close-mid needs.
I'm well aware of their current role. I think it makes no sense.
They fill the same role as SSF. I feel like they should be a stronger close range unit, it makes sense due to them having the m1 carbine.
27 Apr 2024, 07:42 AM
#8
Posts: 287
I'm well aware of their current role. I think it makes no sense.
They fill the same role as SSF. I feel like they should be a stronger close range unit, it makes sense due to them having the m1 carbine.
Well, you may end up waiting a long time for that particular change.
27 Apr 2024, 08:30 AM
#9
Posts: 17892 | Subs: 8
I see what OP is talking about. At close range the carbines put out 33 RPM where a standard panzergren K98 puts out 27 RPM.
Once you get to mid and long range, the carbines have a much higher RPM than bolt actions.
Still, the DPS curve is basically just that of a bolt action.
EDIT: Oops. I didn't realize DAKzergren K98 is such an outlier... Grenadier K98 close RPM is 19.
DAK PGs also have 75% moving accuracy, just like any other mid-close range rifle unit in game.
They still lose to paras and rifles badly.
That being said, in CoH3 paras are NOT elite infantry, they are (not so much)later arriving mainline variant oriented at longer range combat(LMGs) contrary to rifles, and without any upgrades they can be used like rifles and have similar performance.
As already stated, if you feel you need CQC troops, get rifle BARs or rangers, paras are not CQC elites in this game.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
27 Apr 2024, 10:20 AM
#10
Posts: 1307
DAK PGs also have 75% moving accuracy, just like any other mid-close range rifle unit in game.
They still lose to paras and rifles badly.
Yeah... it wasn't an argument about performance. I was just talking about how fast they fire their rifles. For flavor's sake, at least, I feel like it doesn't make much sense that the difference between paratroopers and panzergrenadiers is 6 rounds per minute at spitting range lol. Surely there's a way to decrease rounds per minute and increase accuracy, ending up with the same DPS. But whatever.
"And how we burned in the camps later, thinking: What would things have been like if every Security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive and had to say good-bye to his family?..The Organs would very quickly have suffered a shortage of officers and transport and... the cursed machine would have ground to a halt! If...if...We didn't love freedom enough...We purely and simply deserved everything that happened afterward.”― Aleksandr I. Solzhenitsyn , The Gulag Archipelago 1918–1956
27 Apr 2024, 11:32 AM
#11
Posts: 17892 | Subs: 8
Yeah... it wasn't an argument about performance. I was just talking about how fast they fire their rifles. For flavor's sake, at least, I feel like it doesn't make much sense that the difference between paratroopers and panzergrenadiers is 6 rounds per minute at spitting range lol. Surely there's a way to decrease rounds per minute and increase accuracy, ending up with the same DPS. But whatever.
Makes perfect sense really.
Rifles need to be aimed, you don't just mash trigger because gun allows you to.
Carbines and garands aren't really all that different in CoH games.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
27 Apr 2024, 17:50 PM
#12
Posts: 1307
Makes perfect sense really.
Rifles need to be aimed, you don't just mash trigger because gun allows you to.
Carbines and garands aren't really all that different in CoH games.
Aiming is fairly intuitive at the distance which this game considers "close range".. In fact, I would even go so far as to say that when you're 5 meters away from someone, fine aim is way less important than being the first one to fire a shot (and keep firing until the other person can't). That's where the whole "semi-automatic" thing starts to shine.
Now, I didn't come here to have a discussion on balance. I was just agreeing with the OP (for flavor's sake, at the very least) that carbines and bolt actions having a comparable RPM at close range is kind of silly. Even if DAK panzergrens are supposed to be some kind of Über-elite supersoldaten hopped up on panzershokolade, they still have to contend with the fact that the magazines on their K98's are three times smaller than that of the M1, and yet again, they have to manually cycle the action after every shot. And you're telling me on top of all that, they have to really carefully pick out all their shots for some reason? Either the DAK panzergrens are working their guns like madmen and not aiming (so that thir rate of fire is even remotely close to that of the M1), or they're taking their time and aiming while the paratroopers are languidly firing their carbines like they're just having a fun day at the range. Either way it's silly.
So no, I very much disagree that it makes "perfect sense". What would make sense is if the panzergrens fired their rifles slower at close range. Easy peasy. Whatever you have to do to make the DPS the same as before, do it. Again, I'm just looking at this from an aesthetics standpoint; it does not make sense that in close quarters combat, the paratroopers and panzergrens are firing their rifles at each other at a comparable speed. It just doesn't.
And just to sidetrack on terms of balance, OP is absolutely right that the M1 Carbine has the DPS curve of a bolt action. It's almost identical to the DAK's K98.
"And how we burned in the camps later, thinking: What would things have been like if every Security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive and had to say good-bye to his family?..The Organs would very quickly have suffered a shortage of officers and transport and... the cursed machine would have ground to a halt! If...if...We didn't love freedom enough...We purely and simply deserved everything that happened afterward.”― Aleksandr I. Solzhenitsyn , The Gulag Archipelago 1918–1956
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