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CoH2 vs CoH3 Battlegroups MTX

7 Feb 2023, 00:36 AM
#1
avatar of SturmtigerCobra
Patrion 310

Posts: 963 | Subs: 11

First, I don't want CoH3 to be a total failure.
I do however want to do my part and criticize bad/evil marketing as the Emperor has no clothes.
For better or worse, Sega/Relic marketing is everything.
CoH3 could be the best game in the history of RTS and Sega/Relic marketing clowns are still going to mess it up.

After failing with CoH2/DoW3 MTX business model (CHASING THE GOLDEN GOOSE) and a half-baked progression-based economy, we now have vague Sega promises of more "fair" CoH3 MTX.

CoH3 - Post-Launch Content;
https://community.companyofheroes.com/coh-franchise-home/company-of-heroes-3/blogs/28-coh3-launch-content-beyond
Post-Launch Content

Store – We want to support CoH3 for years to come while also providing players cool things to earn and unlock. An in-game Store is a critical part of that. This will be rolling out shortly after launch and it will offer players fun ways to customize their experience with cosmetics and more. Players can unlock Store items in two ways – with either a paid currency (War Bonds) or an earned currency (Merit) which is gained through Challenges. Certain cosmetics will not be available with Merit, but we will keep an eye on things and ensure the Store feels fair when players choose to engage with it.

To make sure Relic/Sega marketing can't easily delete evidence I took an archived snapshot;
https://web.archive.org/web/20230206195148/https://community.companyofheroes.com/coh-franchise-home/company-of-heroes-3/blogs/28-coh3-launch-content-beyond

"Cool things" = cosmetics only or corporate doublespeak for Battlegroups MTX?
For future reference and Sega bait and switch marketing. Make sure to remember this fact;
There is no mention of any Battlegroups being sold in the store.
This is very important. Remember this FACT.

https://www.investopedia.com/terms/b/bait-switch.asp
What Is Bait and Switch?
Bait and switch is a morally suspect sales tactic that lures customers in with specific claims about the quality or low prices on items that turn out to be unavailable in order to upsell them on a similar, pricier item.
It is considered a form of retail sales fraud, though it takes place in other contexts. While many countries have laws against using bait and switch tactics, not all occurrences constitute fraud.

If Sega marketing planned to make money from Battlegroups MTX then this should have been advertised before launch.
If this bait and switch happen, then it's retail sales fraud.
Whatever can be proven in court or not, if Sega does this then they are no better than EA (criminal enterprise).
With suspected retail sales fraud, to put the money where my mouth is I'll pledge at least 500$ to a legal fund.
If enough gamers supported such efforts, then we could bring Sega to court.
Sure, CoH fans might not win the case.
Why is this important?
Because transparency is the best disinfectant.

A Bug's Life - 'Then they ALL might stand up to us';

Some proof of the “little guys” beating the big boys at their own game;
THE POSITIVE POPULIST ROOTS OF THE GAMERS’ REVOLT, 16th February 2021:
https://radixuk.org/opinion/the-positive-populist-roots-of-the-gamers-revolt/
*SNIP*
The “little guys” learned how to use the rigged stock market system to beat the big boys at their own game. By January 30, short-sellers had lost an estimated $19 billion on GameStop alone, and other heavily shorted stocks were hit as well. Hedge funds lost over $70 billion in January 2021, with GameStop jumping 1,000 per cent the last week of the month.

Are CoH fans, so naive thinking Sega marketing is not planning to monetize Battlegroups as they did with CoH2 commanders MTX (bait and switch marketing)?
CoH3 launch in less than a month so where are the Battlegroups showcase?
Funny how Sega wants to showcase all the faction trees but does not compare that with all the Battlegroups.

All faction trees showcase (without Battlegroups):
https://www.companyofheroes.com/en/media

Battlegroup monetization schemes alone could easily decide the future of this game.
Yes, maybe there is a way to monetize Battlegroups.
I won't lift a finger to save Sega marketing, but fans deserve to know about the Sega train wreck that is coming your way.

Hardcore fans might know this info, but the average joe/newcomers don't necessarily know much about Battlegroups & CoH3 monetization schemes.
Similar to the CoH2 progression-based economy (War Spoils), Sega will use a half-baked progression to justify Battlegroups monetization.
Merit/Challenges progression-based economy = CoH3 free printing press.

But this MTX business model is flawed (for multiple reasons) so it's not a game-changer for either fans or Sega.
It's just an annoyance and Sega is the expert in shooting themselves in the foot.
A free printing press with merit/Challenges could also inflate/devalue the cosmetics MTX. If so, this could put more pressure on CoH3 Battlegroups MTX with deeper monetization schemes.

Or worse case;
When CoH2 and DoW3 post-launch MTX business models collapsed (CHASING THE GOLDEN GOOSE) and look how quickly Sega lost interest.


Company of Heroes 2: War Spoils Skydive Event;


Unfortunately, it's been 3 games in a row and Sega/Relic marketing still can't make a functional progression-based economy.
As confirmed below, there is no progression-based economy in Console Edition.

Company of Heroes 3: Console Edition FAQ:
https://community.companyofheroes.com/coh-franchise-home/company-of-heroes-3/blogs/30-company-of-heroes-3-console-edition-faq
archived;
https://web.archive.org/web/20230206202059/https://community.companyofheroes.com/coh-franchise-home/company-of-heroes-3/blogs/30-company-of-heroes-3-console-edition-faq
Will CoH3's Console Edition be the same as the PC Edition?  

At launch, the two editions of CoH 3 will be identical with some minor exceptions:

CoH3 Console Edition will feature full controller support.
CoH3 Console Edition will not have an in-game Store or Challenges.
CoH3 Console Edition will not feature modding support.
Select post-launch content, cosmetics, or gameplay additions will come to console after being released on PC. We plan to bundle standout content into more robust expansions for Console Edition owners. 

Age of Empires 4 won’t have microtransactions or in-app purchases:
https://www.pcgamesn.com/age-of-empires-4/dlc-expansions

Xbox AoE4 marketing teams have done a better job learning from CoH2/DoW3 marketing mistakes.
Just use some common sense and CoH fans can see which MTX plans Sega has for CoH3 PC post-launch content.
Ironically, I think CoH Console Edition monetization schemes with "robust expansions" along with Xbox Game Pass are superior to PC post-launch content (a mess).
It's better to have no in-game store (robust expansions) vs a flawed in-game store and half-baked progression.

This MTX/progression shitshow goes beyond Sega's corporate greed.
Sega is also being incompetent and/or lazy.
CoH3 is not like Total War: WARHAMMER where Sega can make money from 40+ DLC in less than 7 years.

TW1 release date 2016 (to date 13 DLC):
https://store.steampowered.com/app/364360/Total_War_WARHAMMER/
TW2 release date 2017 (to date 22 DLC):
https://store.steampowered.com/app/594570/Total_War_WARHAMMER_II
TW3 release date 2022 (to date 3 DLC):
https://store.steampowered.com/app/1142710/Total_War_WARHAMMER_III/

Also a red flag;
Chris Casanova, Relic's Director of Live & Product (post-launch content) has abandoned CoH3 before launch:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/chris-casanova/

More often than not, marketing is built upon a foundation of lies. Telling you comforting lies;

Bill Hicks (comedian) on EVIL Marketing;


Sega bait and switch marketing;


Using rigged arcade/gambling machines Sega marketing is also in the business of stealing money from kids.
This is not speculation as Sega has been sued for these highly immoral business practices.

I made a post about Sega's immoral gambling practices here;
Sega sued for ‘rigged’ arcade machine
https://www.coh2.org/topic/111118/sega-sued-for-rigged-arcade-machine
source:
https://www.polygon.com/22573590/sega-key-master-arcade-game-class-action-lawsuit

@thesupernova1623
My grandma actually used to work on these machines. And the test run up takes the key through all the key holes. Yes it is riged to only allow win for each item that is paid for, for example. If you have a $200 watch in there, it won't let a win until that item is paid for.


Fortnite made more than $9 billion in revenue in its first two years:
https://www.theverge.com/2021/5/3/22417447/fortnite-revenue-9-billion-epic-games-apple-antitrust-case

Rest assured, Sega wants a piece of the MTX pie. Big gaming wants racketeering and for that, they need more naive gamers such as EA FIFA sheeple. This is because that makes them an easy target for MTX exploitation and abuse of neuroscience (rigged dopamine-hamster wheels).
To keep the exploitation going Sega will likely recycle fans, even if that means going mobile or attracting the younger generations.
The younger generations are giving plenty of fuel to a new wave of MTX monetization practices.

After playing all factions I am a bit more optimistic towards this game and the biggest improvement is that they almost took nothing from that disaster COH2.

No, fans should be more cautious as you don't fully understand how Sega's marketing works and the current slippery slope (racketeering) towards pure insanity.
There is no honor among thieves.

It's not my job or someone else job to be a "white knight" babysitting you from immoral business ethics.
Except for minors who deserve more legal protection from abuse, adult gamers have to learn their lessons. If not, history will just repeat itself.
As a community, either assume some responsibility or learn the hard way. That is free will.
The Star Wars backlash and implementation of EA fifa business model (immoral business ethics) should have been a RED FLAG that no gaming IP is safe from highly immoral business ethics.

With few exceptions, CoH2/DoW3/CoH3 is being run by Sega marketing clowns.
As a protected corporate class, if you criticize them on LinkedIn say goodbye to your gaming career.

To give credit when it's due;
In comparison, Phil Spencer saved the Xbox Brand and this includes AoE IP.
Not only that, Phil Spencer convinced MS big tech overlords to postpone mobile gaming to favor Console/PC gaming.

Sega/Relic marketing did not save any Relic IP or preserved its legacy.
Not even Xbox marketing wanted to work with the former Relic Brand Director.
That should tell you something.
As when Xbox hires top marketing people for their best IPs the vetting process can take a long time as they check credentials.
This Xbox vetting process (sorting the wheat from the chaff) has been confirmed by former top marketing people.

Alex Price, Relic Studio Brand Director 2013-2018 (overrated marketing guy):
Leading the Sega/Relic charge "CHASING THE GOLDEN GOOSE";
https://www.linkedin.com/in/alex-e-price/


Take note of Sega/Alex Price's corporate jargon "10-year portfolio plan" as no true gamer that cared about Relic's RTS legacy would use jargon like this.

In comparison, Phil Spencer as a gamer is not boasting about Xbox's "portfolio" on LinkedIn;
https://www.linkedin.com/in/phil-spencer-112962/

The big difference between Xbox's and Relic/Sega's marketing;
As the Emperor has no clothes, marketing people such as Alex Price can only do scripted interviews and/or answer softball questions from gamers.
Phil Spencer can do long non-scripted interviews with real gamers and also answer tough questions.
In short, Phil Spencer as a true gaming professional can play two hats in marketing (pro-Xbox and pro-fans) whereas Alex Price can only play one marketing hat (pro-Sega gaming amateurs/portfolio management).

Alex Delamaire. This guy deserves some CoH/AoE credit as two-hats PC marketing:

https://www.linkedin.com/in/alexdelamaire/

With DoW3 marketing. Relic/Sega said they cared about PC gamers.
The problem?
They were lying.
Since DoW3. Look at Relic's hiring practices increasing portability.

DoW3 had two Executive Producers who both were pro-mobile gaming.
1) Stephen MacDonald, former DoW3 executive producer now EA mobile gaming:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/iamstephenmac/

2) Mike Swanson, the Executive Producer behind Age of Empires Online (mobile game) was hired by Relic in 2013 and worked there for 8 months as DoW3 Executive Producer:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/mikeswanson/


The same year as DoW3 was released, Sega Europe got a new boss (Christopher Bergstresser) as President & Chief Operating Officer.
Top mobile gaming industry leader.
Christopher Bergstresser:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/christopherbergstresser/
About
I am a Mobile and Video Game Executive transforming organizations with innovative growth, revenue streams, development methodologies and user acquisition strategies.

I align all ecosystems to drive sustained growth and product revenue.

From my early days leading the launch of ground-breaking entertainment with Sega and negotiating multimillion-dollar partnerships with Microsoft, Disney and ESPN for Konami, to recently uniting the mobile and web strategy for game developer / platform Miniclip, I have impacted almost every facet in the mobile, online and console gaming industry.


Christopher Bergstresser, Sega Europe boss leaves the company after just four months, Dec 12, 2017:
https://www.pcgamesn.com/chris-bergstresser-sega-europe-coo

Relic leaves Dawn of War 3 behind as it moves on to new projects, 8 Feb 2018:
https://www.eurogamer.net/relic-leaves-dawn-of-war-3-behind-as-it-moves-on-to-new-projects

So as with DoW portable games, the apple doesn't fall far from the tree
"DoW4" = Mobile gaming. EPIC FAIL. Damage control>>>>CoH3:Toy Soldiers


DoW3/AoE4/CoH3= cartoonish artstyle & conflicting aesthetics.
Whether this is intentional or not, this is what happens when Relic's hiring practices are all over the place as jack-of-all-trades arts/RTS studio.

So do not expect marketing people on LinkedIn, to be honest about anything.
They are a protected Linkedin class.
On Linkedin, even EA Fifa marketing gets praised for being a great game. :gimpy:

Ofc, anyone with a logical thinking brain knows it's all marketing BS.
So to hire good marketing people, Relic/Sega hiring practices have to sort the corporate FRAUD/BS from the true gaming professionals.

I said this before and I'll say this again.
From 2013-2015 pro-EA marketing clowns were running CoH2. Then they moved on to greener pastures with DoW3. Then they ruined that. Oh well, poor sales.
Zero accountability and PROTECTED CLASS.

If consumers don't vote with their wallets?
Then this hostile marketing takeover will happen until the clowns have moved on to greener pastures;



Don't like fan abuse?
Then grow a backbone.
Don't be Sega's marketing lapdog/Mini Me.
Sooner or later the marketing clowns will run out of money.
Then who will be left to clean up their mess?

Knowledge is power.
With knowledge, fans tell the cockroaches to shovel their overrated marketing bs.

There is no honor among thieves.
There is honor among military vets;

Band of Brothers - The surrender of a German Colonel (a masterpiece in WW2 storytelling):

When a Bf-109 spared a stricken B-17;
7 Feb 2023, 05:34 AM
#2
avatar of Rosbone

Posts: 2117 | Subs: 2

Wow. That was a post and a half. Even for the Cobra.

Cobe, when you use acronyms and such, can you spell it out first. Then you can use the acronym from then on. Thanks, your technical writing teacher Mako.

EX: Relic can eat ass if they try to use micro-transactions (MTX).
7 Feb 2023, 05:53 AM
#3
avatar of Rosbone

Posts: 2117 | Subs: 2

I came to Coh2 later in its life. I missed any early debacles with OP commanders.

So I see the method of purchasing items with supply or real money the best way forward. As long as it is easily obtainable. For example: You cant price a great commander/Battlegroup so high it takes forever to get it with supply. As you are getting stomped in automatch because of it. That will kill the game.

Are there other games out there that have the return on your time like Coh/Coh2? Do people play LoL, Dota, CS:GO for 1000's of hours???

I almost feel I should buy Coh3 just to pay Relic for the 5k hours I have in Coh2. I surely got back the small amount of cash I paid for it. Oh that's right, they actually owe me $1000's of dollars for sitting in Queue trying to get a playable game for all those years... you lazy cucks.

Having things you can purchase for real money seems fine for the people who will be playing for years and years. They may want to support the studio. And for the donkeys that just have to have the "cool" skins on their tanks, etc.
7 Feb 2023, 06:23 AM
#4
avatar of donofsandiego

Posts: 1320

Do people play LoL, Dota, CS:GO for 1000's of hours???.


Yes.
source: no-lifer

also Gmod
7 Feb 2023, 07:08 AM
#5
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17896 | Subs: 8

It is rather obvious new battlegroups and skins will be monetized, at least on PC.

Like it or not, these are the times we live in, developers and publishers do it for a simple reason - regardless of backlash or angy forum posts, it works.
7 Feb 2023, 12:24 PM
#6
avatar of Fantomasas

Posts: 122

It is rather obvious new battlegroups and skins will be monetized, at least on PC.

Like it or not, these are the times we live in, developers and publishers do it for a simple reason - regardless of backlash or angy forum posts, it works.


Not exactly.

It works if the game is popular, or at least average population. You can have unpopular monetization, but make up for it with the quality and content support. I am 100% fine with fancy expensive cosmetics if it means support.

Game gets deprioritized/abandoned if the post-launch monetization doesn't live up to the expectations. It can become a feedback loop where inconvenient monetization drives people away, which makes publishers cut the post-launch budget, which drives even more people away leading to the maintenance (abandonment).

I don't see how CoH3 can monetize cosmetics successfully. Sure they had some throwaway camos and cross-over skins in CoH2, but even with 10k concurrent players on the regular basis, they stopped making simple textures (where other games have remodels, voice-overs, vfx for skins). It was unprofitable, and same will be for CoH3 - tank skins aren't sexy catgirls or black knights - they barely matter.

7 Feb 2023, 12:33 PM
#7
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17896 | Subs: 8

I'm not saying what is or isn't popular.

I'm saying what the framework in game is built for.

We had skins and doctrines in CoH2.
We will have skins and battlegroups in CoH3.

And since there is no bulletin filler here, we will likely have no way to earn then in-game, not without something being hard-monetization.

We haven't even arrived at release and we already have paid or to be more precise, pre-paid skins on sale, many of us preordered because we will play the game, but that is your classic FOMO trap.
7 Feb 2023, 16:31 PM
#8
avatar of Rosbone

Posts: 2117 | Subs: 2

I don't see how CoH3 can monetize cosmetics successfully. Sure they had some throwaway camos and cross-over skins in CoH2, but even with 10k concurrent players on the regular basis, they stopped making simple textures

I remember someone saying Relic could not add any more stuff to their build because they were at some sort of limit??? I could be totally off.
7 Feb 2023, 23:31 PM
#9
avatar of Hannibal
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 3111 | Subs: 2

I don't see how CoH3 can monetize cosmetics successfully. Sure they had some throwaway camos and cross-over skins in CoH2, but even with 10k concurrent players on the regular basis, they stopped making simple textures (where other games have remodels, voice-overs, vfx for skins). It was unprofitable, and same will be for CoH3 - tank skins aren't sexy catgirls or black knights - they barely matter.

There's already a CoH3 cosmetic DLC out there. They'll clearly monetize it.

Creating a new skin is not that much work. If a somewhat decent artist spends half a day on it (and he'll probably need less), Relic spends a couple of hundred dollars. You'll break even if 200-300 player's buy it for 2 dollars.
8 Feb 2023, 01:12 AM
#10
avatar of nigo
Senior Editor Badge

Posts: 2238 | Subs: 15

BRAVO COBRA, BRAVO clap clap clap

8 Feb 2023, 11:36 AM
#11
avatar of GachiGasm

Posts: 1116 | Subs: 1


And since there is no bulletin filler here, we will likely have no way to earn then in-game, not without something being hard-monetization.


I've made a post after digging tech test files, which had connections to montization.

Pretty much what will be monetisation

1) Separate\bundled skins for tanks\captured points\inf units. Pretty much every aspect of army will be customisation
2) Things like player avatars, titles, player cards
3) There will be 3 types of item rarity similar to common\rare\epic
4) And I believe game would have 2 types of currency one being free and the other one will be paid one.


Also again, for those who think "skins aren't sufficient enough", there are passive income, to generate more $ proper game-developers\publishers use expansions, the same way Total War did.

I mean sure, big companies always trying to milk you dry, but lets be honest "EA\Ubisoft style" is not the single one here on the market.
8 Feb 2023, 12:10 PM
#12
avatar of Hannibal
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 3111 | Subs: 2



I've made a post after digging tech test files, which had connections to montization.

Pretty much what will be monetisation

1) Separate\bundled skins for tanks\captured points\inf units. Pretty much every aspect of army will be customisation
2) Things like player avatars, titles, player cards
3) There will be 3 types of item rarity similar to common\rare\epic
4) And I believe game would have 2 types of currency one being free and the other one will be paid one.


Also again, for those who think "skins aren't sufficient enough", there are passive income, to generate more $ proper game-developers\publishers use expansions, the same way Total War did.

I mean sure, big companies always trying to milk you dry, but lets be honest "EA\Ubisoft style" is not the single one here on the market.

I remember your post, it was a pretty interesting read, but quite a while ago.

Did you find anything regarding battlegroups or other gameplay content? What you list up there seems to be cosmetics only.
8 Feb 2023, 16:12 PM
#13
avatar of Smartie

Posts: 857 | Subs: 2

What is wrong if Relic sells cosmetics? As long as I have the option to turn off unhistoric skins etc. I support it. People seem to forget that Relic is a company who needs to generate revenue after the launch. They can only support the game long term if they sell cosmetics, customization etc. I really don't understand why people care complaining about this, honestly. If I can customize my units then I happily throw my money on it. I also don't mind to pay for quality battle groups - as long as they are balanced.
Relic knows that it crossed a line in CoH2, they will not do the same mistake again. They also adressed that several times btw.
All in all I would recommend to have some patience and look back at his topic 3 months after launch. If we have balancing breaking battle groups I'm the first who will rage. But I'm optimistic that this will not be the case.
8 Feb 2023, 16:47 PM
#14
avatar of Hannibal
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 3111 | Subs: 2

What is wrong if Relic sells cosmetics? As long as I have the option to turn off unhistoric skins etc. I support it. People seem to forget that Relic is a company who needs to generate revenue after the launch. They can only support the game long term if they sell cosmetics, customization etc. I really don't understand why people care complaining about this, honestly. If I can customize my units then I happily throw my money on it. I also don't mind to pay for quality battle groups - as long as they are balanced.

Gameplay wise there is nothing wrong with it. There can be social/financial issues with microtransactions generally for people vulnerable to spending, but that's quite a whole different topic.

People mostly complain because nowadays you'll also not get a finished game anymore at launch. We're already only buying licenses without any reselling value, and many games are in a decent state months to years after launch, which should have been actual development time. The 'games as a service' model is often being abused to actually ship an alpha version of the game and excuse bugs.


Relic knows that it crossed a line in CoH2, they will not do the same mistake again. They also adressed that several times btw.
All in all I would recommend to have some patience and look back at his topic 3 months after launch. If we have balancing breaking battle groups I'm the first who will rage. But I'm optimistic that this will not be the case.

I wouldn't trust any game company on their promises, especially not if publishers are behind them that have proven to cut content and sell it later as DLC.
We'll see what Relic will do, but since these MTXs can heavily influence the game's design and balance, it's necessary to draw a red line before important design decision have been made
8 Feb 2023, 17:25 PM
#15
avatar of UberHanz
Donator 11

Posts: 247 | Subs: 2

While selling cosmetics is obviously no problem at all, I would even argue that selling Battlegroups also is not. As long those are not consciously unbalanced.

The game seems quite voluminous at release with 4 factions and 3 Battlegroups each. If there will be additional content down the line, I am willing to pay for it. If developers dont get money for additional content, the incentive to produce it is almost zero.

8 Feb 2023, 19:11 PM
#16
avatar of Smartie

Posts: 857 | Subs: 2


Gameplay wise there is nothing wrong with it. There can be social/financial issues with microtransactions generally for people vulnerable to spending, but that's quite a whole different topic.

People mostly complain because nowadays you'll also not get a finished game anymore at launch. We're already only buying licenses without any reselling value, and many games are in a decent state months to years after launch, which should have been actual development time. The 'games as a service' model is often being abused to actually ship an alpha version of the game and excuse bugs.

I wouldn't trust any game company on their promises, especially not if publishers are behind them that have proven to cut content and sell it later as DLC.
We'll see what Relic will do, but since these MTXs can heavily influence the game's design and balance, it's necessary to draw a red line before important design decision have been made


I completely agree with your post but want to explain why I'm more optimistic regarding Relic's dlc politic:
I'm convinced that they know that a "fair" dlc policy is needed if they want to establish the game as service game: In other words: They will make more profit if they treat the players better (no op commanders, good quality dlcs instead of bad designed copy and paste doctrines).
Regarding cut out content:
I know that a lot of companies have done that in the past and that's shit. But some players don't want to understand how production in the gaming industry works. Take a battlegroup for example: Before Relic can sell a new doctrine, artists have to draw, units need to be modeled and testing have to be done. If Relic does want to support the game and keep it fresh than they alrdy have to work on mp and sp stuff or we will have to wait a long time. And then players would complain why the game doesnt get the much needed content.
8 Feb 2023, 22:15 PM
#17
avatar of GachiGasm

Posts: 1116 | Subs: 1


I remember your post, it was a pretty interesting read, but quite a while ago.

Did you find anything regarding battlegroups or other gameplay content? What you list up there seems to be cosmetics only.


Hard to say really. There are signs of them, but they are very vague. We for sure know that there are at least 2 units missing from the game being Noshorn and Archer TDs.

We also know that having more then 3 battlegroups are also planned, since there were signs of battlegroup loadouts. On top of that, dispute a lot of concepts of battlegroups, have changed since previous tests. Most of the abilities were still in use in tech tests.

Meaning that we are still missing multiple units\weapons\abilities in battlegroups tech test had (and relic pretty much said that on release there will be only 3 battlegroups). Not to mention that WM and US had 4 commanders in the files.

So its safe to assume, that relic will release new battlegroups.

My personal opinion is that they are most likely then not, will be locked behind both in-game and real money, since Relic got a lot of hate before about commanders being unobtainable without real life money.

As for gameplay content. Pretty much mini-gamemodes similar to the ones in vCoH ToW, will be returning to some extend, there were a lot of signs of them.
8 Feb 2023, 22:36 PM
#18
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17896 | Subs: 8

They literally said they will be releasing new battlegroups during one of the deep dives and UI is dead giveaway for it. Doctrines were monetized and sold well, so no reason to believe they wouldn't do the same with battlegroups.

Not really sure what you're debating here.
9 Feb 2023, 06:58 AM
#19
avatar of PatFenis

Posts: 239

I'm pretty certain they will follow Freemium strats with battlegroups. AKA buy it for real money now, or grind ingame currency for it.
Seems the most plausible, atleast if you can somewhat "trust" what they have said in the past dev vlogs talking about the "past mistakes with doctrines".
9 Feb 2023, 10:05 AM
#20
avatar of Hannibal
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 3111 | Subs: 2

I completely agree with your post but want to explain why I'm more optimistic regarding Relic's dlc politic:
I'm convinced that they know that a "fair" dlc policy is needed if they want to establish the game as service game: In other words: They will make more profit if they treat the players better (no op commanders, good quality dlcs instead of bad designed copy and paste doctrines).
Regarding cut out content:
I know that a lot of companies have done that in the past and that's shit. But some players don't want to understand how production in the gaming industry works. Take a battlegroup for example: Before Relic can sell a new doctrine, artists have to draw, units need to be modeled and testing have to be done.


The issue is that they don't necessarily maximize profits if they treat players "better". If we look at Sega and Creative Assembly and how they handled many of their Total War entries and DLCs over the last 10 years, the base core games really look stripped down to the minimum to sell the better content later.

I am not in the games industry, but from what I have heard, at least towards the last months where development focuses on optimization and bug fixing, artists are rather free and that's the time when they often create the first cosmetic DLCs. Also, creating skins for vehicles is not that complex. Creating a battlegroup with new units overall is obviously more work, but given Relic's record in CoH2, I don't know why I should trust them. Yes, they claim to have learned their lesson, but CoH2's commander monetization is quite atrocious. And if Gachi's claim of having two different in game currencies turns out to true, that's another sign that they have not learned at all. The only reason for currencies is to hide the real costs as well as overspending due to mismatches in how much currency you can buy and the costs of single items. It's an inherently dishonest system, and even with CoH2's almost non-existant unlocking system, at the very least they had real prices.

If Relic does want to support the game and keep it fresh than they alrdy have to work on mp and sp stuff or we will have to wait a long time. And then players would complain why the game doesnt get the much needed content.

That depends on your target audience. CoH so far was aimed towards a more mature audience, there are less issues regarding game content if the base game is decently made. But I confess that this is a highly subjective opinion, I'm definitely the kind of person that sinks hundreds of hours into very few games if the core gameplay loop suits me instead of playing many games for only a couple of hours each.
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