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russian armor

USF Faction Redesign

3 Jun 2022, 23:29 PM
#1
avatar of Kurobane

Posts: 643

I have created a mod with a full USF rework. Numbers here are not absolute and can be tweaked and changed.
Also with that said the Modding Tools also have not been updated and some stats and or recent balance changes may not apply in this mod. The idea/purpose of this is to have a visual showcase and promote ideas on improving faction/commander design.

Key Points/Ideas for USF Faction Design :
-Integrate Weapon Racks upgrade with its corresponding Building
Example:


Platoon Command Post Unlocks Bazooka
Company Command Post Unlocks Bar
Battalion Command Post Unlocks M1918A2 LMG

1 Weapon Rack for each of the three USF Buildings

-Officer Squads no longer free but come with benefits associated with officers such as extended sight and easier access to .50 Cal HMG/AT Gun


-Stuart Swapped With Greyhound
-M10 Swapped with Jackson


Commander Changes

Infantry Company
-LMG Removed and Moved to Battalion Command Post
-New Ability - Rifleman Flares

Tactical Support Company
-LMG Removed and moved to Battalion Command Post
-New Ability - P47 Smoke Drop

Armor Company
-M10 Replaced with Jackson.
Jackson 14 CP, Limited to 1,70 Range TD, 720 Mp/245 Fuel

Thoughts: US has too much clutter with many different sherman variants and not enough units with a clear defined role. Jackson can serve as another end game tank alternative joining the Pershing as the 2 end game tanks for USF. M10 is stastically the same as the old M36 Jackson with the only difference being the model. Also it makes more sense having the M10 as a stock unit (since it was produced in significantly higher quantities than the Jackson was which was quite rare).


Airborne Company
-Pathfinders are now limited to 1
-Pathfinders can now Construct Reinforcement Beacons at 2CP
-2CP New (Passive) Ability Reinforcement Beacon
-HMG/AT Gun Paradrop moved to Reinforcement Beacon
-Pathfinder Beacon renamed to Radio Beacon. Can call in weaker versions of Paratroopers
-3CP New (Passive)Expanded Air Operations - Upgrades Paratroopers to current live version

Thoughts : Basically USF version of Panzerfusiliers except thematically based around the theme of Pathfinders acting as an advanced party which can call in further air support. Paratroopers act as a replacement for Rifleman as the mainline and start off weak but get stronger over time with upgrades/investment.


Recon Support Company
-IR Pathfinders are now limited to 1
-Greyhound replaced with Stuart
Greyhound is now a stock Unit. Gains +40 dmg vs vehicles (Stuart does 80 damage, Greyhound normally does 40 but now gains an additional 40 vs vehicles) so that USF doesn't lose light vehicle killing power.




*Note* Commander Previews cannot be changed in the current modding tools to my knowledge. Once you select a commander it will show the changes listed above

Also Keep in mind that numbers are not final. Some numbers may be off due to outdated modding tools, most of USF is up to date with current patch.

Misc Changes
Most USF Infantry now have Vehicle Priority upon picking up Anti-Tank based slot weapons such as Bazooka,Piat etc. Initial Testing it appears to work fine, may be buggy. I put this here as I would like to see this in COH2/COH3.

-Various Tooltip Changes

Download Link
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2816493594

Once Downloaded Create a Custom Game, Click on Options and Under Tuning Pack select the mod and create game.



To Do:
Work on Rifle Company/Mechanized



Any ideas for Commander Reworks (for any faction) let me know and I will attempt to create it.


3 Jun 2022, 23:43 PM
#2
avatar of Protos Angelus

Posts: 1483

In rifle company, replace the halftrack with the mortar halftrack. Fits the theme of supporting rifleman and not just another clown car gimmicks.

Unless jackson received armor/hp buffs as well, it's kinda weird, having a heavy tank price whilst only being AT. If it's not tankier, then it's extra speed matters little with the 70 range. Maybe jackson should be left stock, and M10 redesigned into a tank hunter with good accuracy, mediocre penetration and high mobility. Right now M10 (not in this mod, but stock COH2) is the definition of "Meh..."
4 Jun 2022, 01:28 AM
#3
avatar of rumartinez89

Posts: 584

In rifle company, replace the halftrack with the mortar halftrack. Fits the theme of supporting rifleman and not just another clown car gimmicks.

Unless jackson received armor/hp buffs as well, it's kinda weird, having a heavy tank price whilst only being AT. If it's not tankier, then it's extra speed matters little with the 70 range. Maybe jackson should be left stock, and M10 redesigned into a tank hunter with good accuracy, mediocre penetration and high mobility. Right now M10 (not in this mod, but stock COH2) is the definition of "Meh..."


Screw that, swap out the half track for Thompsons. Dude flare, fire up, thompsons along with green cover and mines. It is literally rifleman company.
4 Jun 2022, 04:17 AM
#4
avatar of thekessvn

Posts: 102

1/ Greyhound should be 40 dmg against LV, tank due to it cost and timeline. Accessing fast, cheap zoo is enough for usf.
2/ about Mechanize, I rather throw M4 76 to take back dozer because no need 76s when stock AT is M10. Let universe medium tank task for ez8 alone.
3/ M10 should get 110 fuel price since it need some thing to deal with team game (camo with first 60 range shot + extra pen, fast firing position ability from CoH1...).
4/ ranger should get para treatment. Lower to CP2 and less power (4 men elite M1 garand or 5 men with normal m1carbine on RE ) but more unity (laying demo, booty trap, sprint..). They can get 5 men size at vet 2 or change to elite M1 carbine from normal 1, got supressive fire ability without debuff.
+Upgrade: 4 thompson or radio men (upgrade for 5th men). Equip with thompson, give ranger faster cap speed and call in arty (just super fast 75mm heat barrage , global cooldown) and ranger squad got 1 weapon slot only.
4 Jun 2022, 09:20 AM
#5
avatar of Esxile

Posts: 3476 | Subs: 1

USF doesn't need a X time redesign, just having their unit being relevant.

Imo there 2 different ways to bring USF back to the game.

  • 1st solution - Buff Riflemen around their native RA.

At the moment they look like better volks than semi elite infantry falling hard on the mid-to-late game. Buffing their RA would make them more relevant on the move and increase their staying power without killing faster.

But I don't think buffing riflemen would be the right choice. It could lead the faction into old riflespam. The core issue with USF is its high reliance on RNG to works, their units have high damage but only if RNG let them.

  • 2nd solution - Buff a set of units in their roster that are at the moment not bringing much.

1. M20.
the unit is bad at killing infantry when it hit the field and only become relevant once vet2.
Buff its killing power so it become a bleeding machine from the get to go.

2. HMG.50.
Make it so it finally suppress correctly.

3. AAHT.
Increase it suppress and suppression radius so it becomes a real blob control unit.

4. Atgun.
Put back the take aim as free and native vet1.

5. Sherman HE.
Increase its accuracy and decrease the AOE so it hit more consistently, the unit should scare infantry but todau that's not the case. An infantry unit shouldn't be able to stand in front of it more than 3 shots.
5 Jun 2022, 18:12 PM
#6
avatar of donofsandiego

Posts: 764


2/ about Mechanize, I rather throw M4 76 to take back dozer because no need 76s when stock AT is M10. Let universe medium tank task for ez8 alone.
3/ M10 should get 110 fuel price since it need some thing to deal with team game (camo with first 60 range shot + extra pen, fast firing position ability from CoH1...).


M10 is being swapped with Jackson visually only in this hypothetical update. It would have the same stats as Jackson.
6 Jun 2022, 15:43 PM
#7
avatar of y3ivan

Posts: 156

USF need a cost decrease for most of their base units and tech thats for sure.

9 Jun 2022, 00:09 AM
#8
avatar of Pedro_Jedi

Posts: 542

Riflemen should have cost discounts with every tier you unlock.

Base: 280MP
LT or Cap: -10MP
LT or Cap upgrade: -10MP each
Major: -10MP

Final cost at 240MP, representing increasing support across the Atlantic.

I understand that coding would be a mess. Maybe a side tech?
9 Jun 2022, 09:42 AM
#9
avatar of BasedSecretary

Posts: 1183

Riflemen should have cost discounts with every tier you unlock.

Base: 280MP
LT or Cap: -10MP
LT or Cap upgrade: -10MP each
Major: -10MP

Final cost at 240MP, representing increasing support across the Atlantic.

I understand that coding would be a mess. Maybe a side tech?


even if something like that could work, adding more side teching bullshit into an already bullshit ridden faction sounds like a recipe for disaster for me.
11 Jun 2022, 19:31 PM
#10
avatar of CODGUY

Posts: 883



even if something like that could work, adding more side teching bullshit into an already bullshit ridden faction sounds like a recipe for disaster for me.


This. You don't have to do that much to tweak USF. You could start by making BARs 50 munitions and remove grenade side tech and integrate into T2 teching. Or not make Riflemen suck at long range
11 Jun 2022, 19:52 PM
#11
avatar of Pedro_Jedi

Posts: 542



even if something like that could work, adding more side teching bullshit into an already bullshit ridden faction sounds like a recipe for disaster for me.


Can't disagree with that. But I still see Riflemen cost as a fundamental problem for a faction that was supposed to be based on its core infantry.
11 Jun 2022, 21:01 PM
#12
avatar of rumartinez89

Posts: 584

Wouldn’t giving rifleman smoke back fix pretty much every issue. They would no longer be as MP starved, less dependent on Bars(can use muni on made wipes instead) and allow more synergy with elites. Most of the USF gimmicks have been toned down so it shouldn’t be to big an issue
11 Jun 2022, 21:55 PM
#13
avatar of BasedSecretary

Posts: 1183

jump backJump back to quoted post11 Jun 2022, 19:31 PMCODGUY


This. You don't have to do that much to tweak USF. You could start by making BARs 50 munitions and remove grenade side tech and integrate into T2 teching. Or not make Riflemen suck at long range


this

too simple to fix but they wont do it
11 Jun 2022, 21:56 PM
#14
avatar of BasedSecretary

Posts: 1183



Can't disagree with that. But I still see Riflemen cost as a fundamental problem for a faction that was supposed to be based on its core infantry.


Make riflemen 240 mp and make bars add in with 100 muni cost flat. Remove side teching for weps, and keep grens tech.
11 Jun 2022, 23:42 PM
#15
avatar of Kurobane

Posts: 643

Riflemen should have cost discounts with every tier you unlock.

Base: 280MP
LT or Cap: -10MP
LT or Cap upgrade: -10MP each
Major: -10MP

Final cost at 240MP, representing increasing support across the Atlantic.

I understand that coding would be a mess. Maybe a side tech?



It is possible to do but it wouldn't make much sense. Usually you make 2-3 Riflemen at the start and you don't make any more than that due to Officers coming. It would make more sense having Riflemen reinforcement cost get reduced with each Building Tier Upgrade.


jump backJump back to quoted post11 Jun 2022, 19:31 PMCODGUY


This. You don't have to do that much to tweak USF. You could start by making BARs 50 munitions and remove grenade side tech and integrate into T2 teching. Or not make Riflemen suck at long range


It would help sure but it doesn't fix any of the problems with USF which is mainly its rigid tech structure. This is why Soviets were picked the most in GCS3 mainly due to being the most flexible and having the most varied build orders. They need the initial cost of the tech buildings to be significantly lower and transferred into the secondary upgrade (Mechanized Platoon etc ) so that getting vehicles out still takes the same amount of time but having the option for a quick minor side unlock for an AT-Gun or 50 Cal HMG would put them on par with Soviets who decide to get T1/T2.
12 Jun 2022, 06:57 AM
#16
avatar of Esxile

Posts: 3476 | Subs: 1




It is possible to do but it wouldn't make much sense. Usually you make 2-3 Riflemen at the start and you don't make any more than that due to Officers coming. It would make more sense having Riflemen reinforcement cost get reduced with each Building Tier Upgrade.




It would help sure but it doesn't fix any of the problems with USF which is mainly its rigid tech structure. This is why Soviets were picked the most in GCS3 mainly due to being the most flexible and having the most varied build orders. They need the initial cost of the tech buildings to be significantly lower and transferred into the secondary upgrade (Mechanized Platoon etc ) so that getting vehicles out still takes the same amount of time but having the option for a quick minor side unlock for an AT-Gun or 50 Cal HMG would put them on par with Soviets who decide to get T1/T2.


You forgot the mp drain. Cons early game are as performant as riflemen for 3/4 of their price and reinforcement cost.
Your proposal isn't going to make USF more flexible because USF atgun isn't a Zis, you get it only when mediums are going to hit the field. There are no problems with USF BO being rigide IF USF units keep their flexibility.

Riflemen sux, that's not a big news. And they don't sux because they've been nerfed but because Axis factions have been buffed continuously with no regards for the USF matchup. USF flexibility lies in updating BARs or going LVs but today it doesn't work because BAR isn't an option, its a mandatory upgrade for a unit that is already outpaced by other mainline infantries. LVs aren't an option either because since riflemen are outpaced you must get one to stop the bleed until you can finally equip BAR on them.
12 Jun 2022, 10:04 AM
#17
avatar of Protos Angelus

Posts: 1483

jump backJump back to quoted post12 Jun 2022, 06:57 AMEsxile


You forgot the mp drain. Cons early game are as performant as riflemen for 3/4 of their price and reinforcement cost.
Your proposal isn't going to make USF more flexible because USF atgun isn't a Zis, you get it only when mediums are going to hit the field. There are no problems with USF BO being rigide IF USF units keep their flexibility.

Riflemen sux, that's not a big news. And they don't sux because they've been nerfed but because Axis factions have been buffed continuously with no regards for the USF matchup. USF flexibility lies in updating BARs or going LVs but today it doesn't work because BAR isn't an option, its a mandatory upgrade for a unit that is already outpaced by other mainline infantries. LVs aren't an option either because since riflemen are outpaced you must get one to stop the bleed until you can finally equip BAR on them.


As performant as rifleman? What? Cons, compared to rifles are much weaker starting out. Great thing about cons is that they are in a great faction and they have molly instead of nades, which is beneficial on urban maps and generally keeps things out of cover, whereas nades are more of a low rank wipers. (hardly anyone high ranked will get wiped by nades)
13 Jun 2022, 01:30 AM
#18
avatar of theekvn

Posts: 278



As performant as rifleman? What? Cons, compared to rifles are much weaker starting out. Great thing about cons is that they are in a great faction and they have molly instead of nades, which is beneficial on urban maps and generally keeps things out of cover, whereas nades are more of a low rank wipers. (hardly anyone high ranked will get wiped by nades)

problem of Rifleman and USF overall:
- Depend on their raw power too much while unity aspect was cut/nerf overtime. That make USF bleeding hard in 1v1, 2v2 and 4v4. In 3v3 terratory, thank to the side map and "1v1" promote play in early to mid timeline USF could gain their trully superior.
- the worst tech up force you into this case:
+ picking Lieu for forcused LV play and lose all bleeding tool.
+ Picking Capt and losing scout option, also less agressive play meaning Axis has more than time to hold.
- Talke about Soviet or UKF, they have both of those thing in whole linear tech. You could switch left or right depend on game situation....
17 Jun 2022, 16:04 PM
#19
avatar of BasedSecretary

Posts: 1183

I am not really a USF kind of guy but now that we are at it lemme have a try at fixing usf

  • Remove Weapon Racks completely. Make the gren upgrade also enable a muni upgrade for each unit (Wehrmacht style) and let them upgrade on the go. No need to run back one and two times to base just to get more weapons. Make the upgrade more expensive though, like double in cost.
  • Riflemen get options to upgrade to bars or zooks, as do all squads on the field. You pay either for one or two weapons 50 muni each.
  • Riflemen get reworked vet bonuses to actually make them comparable to the -right now- clearly superior Pathfinders. I personally would give them better mid-long range performance, and bring them en-par with Grens and Cons and Volks. I would also allow them to build sandbags.
  • Make the tech tree LINEAR. Idiotic side teching should be ABOLISHED in COH2 or even be brought into OKW's standards with little trucks. Bring a closed t1->t2->t3 system that allows the player to actually have all the tools in game to counter foes. No more backteching to lieut to get atg.
  • Make truly LIGHT vehicles. No more rushing stuarts. Make E8/Gayhound actually viable and able to be good against both infantry and axis lv in order to let the USF be the LV kings (since retard kings are clearly ukf who are fubar).
  • Remove RE's ridiculous suppress fire ability. It never works anyway.
  • Give USF a serious lategame infantry saver!!! What happens when you lose a rifleman? You get set BACK! That's what happens. OKW have Obers, SOV have Guards/7man cons/Penals, OST have PzGrens. What USF have???



14 Jul 2022, 06:29 AM
#20
avatar of y3ivan

Posts: 156

all this rework idea is just revival of the old USF when it was launched 2014.

remember when USF tech was linear LT -> CAPT -> Maj and weapon racks are automaticly unlocked based on tier unlocks. the Community whine about tech restriction, so relic changed it. Now we have bar pathfinders blobs in 5mins.

Frankly speaking, i believe in the current USF direction, just that the unit balance is a bit off, in cost and performance.
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