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Fallshirms are OKW power creep

27 Jul 2021, 19:38 PM
#1
avatar of MassaDerek

Posts: 197

340 MP, cheaper or same MP cost as Guards or Commandos(which you have to reinforce after you spawn them regardless of the rally point you spawned them at, meaning that their actual cost is 390MP.)
They can arrive prior to the 10 minute mark due to being 2CP, but already come equipped with two FG42s and laser accuracy K98k's(92% accuracy at all ranges).

To upgrade them with two FG42s and turn them into terminators costs only 60 munitions and Panzer Authorization.For 60 munitions, you get two fully automatic long range battle rifles whilst a USF player would need to pay 120 munitions for two BARs, and then they still would have three models with only semi automatic M1 Garands whilst the entire Fallschirm squad is armed with fully automatic battle rifles effective at every range.

Compare this to SOV, majority of their infantry are only armed with Mosins,SVT40s or DP28s(worst LMG upgrade in the game btw) if you're lucky.Relic assume that in 1944 the Soviets were still basically only using Mosins like peasants instead of having produced over 8 million SMGs during the war.Oh and the PPPSH only has the kind of DPS the 4xFG42 have at point blank range, meaning you have to close the gap to the OKW or OST squad and get gunned down as a result.
The UKF and USF both have good weapon upgrades(BAR and Bren), but you can have only two of them at any time, the rest of your squad is mainly consisting of plain rifles like the Garand of SMLE which aren't going to cut it against Fallshirms.

There is no equivalent to Fallshirms in this game, Relic have made it so.UKF players usually only have 1-2 squads of Commandos with Brens, or none at all seeing as how many doctrines like Royal Engineers have no elite infantry to speak of, not to mentions the Assault Officer has lost their elite Bren modifier a while ago.

To fight Fallshirms as UKF you have to either:
1.Use Vickers MG(bad suppression, and the doctrine that has Fallshirmjaegers has smoke pots that drop in 5 seconds and make your support weapons completely useless to counter the OKW player who is usually blobbing those same Fallshirms.
2.Invest in light vehicles like the UC or QUAD M5 that are inevitably going to be made obsolete by AT guns or axis LV rushes.
3.Actually upgrade your sections(also bad investement and idea)
You need to pay 40fuel 180-270 munitions to actually compete at all against fallshirms with IS, and thats asumming you have green cover to help you out, which is certainly not a gurantee.It makes more sense as a UKF player to not upgrade IS at all and wait for Brenmandos, since they don't rely on cover to do any actual noteworthy DPS, and you don't have to spend your fuel on bolster or grenades since they already have grenades and larger squad size.
4.Waste your fuel on a early Centaur rush that is going to put you behind in the armor game and get you crushed by PZ4s and Panthers.I dont plan on building Cromwell's either since they are worse than T-34s in their investement/profit margin.

Fallshirms are the ultimate example of power creep of factions like OKW, whilst most infantry squads have bolt action or at best semi action rifles, they come prepackaged with 4 laser-precision FG42s.There is no equivalent of this in the entire game.This is like if you time-travelled a USSOCOM brigade into the trenches of the First World War.Oh and I haven't mentioned that they have broken bundle grenades that deal twice as much damage as any other grenade whilst being the same munitions cost as any other, and WP grenades to combo them with the afromentioned bundle grenades for added BS.They can camouflage in light cover which is plentiful late-game and have first-strike bonus that turns them into even more broken cancer.There is no cap on how many elite squads you can have in this game either, so expect 3 fallshirms in camouflage killing your entire squad if you weren't paying attention.

I simply don't understand how relic comes up with broken units like the Fallshirms.Also this is from the perspective of a 3v3-4v4 UKF player, so I also have less squads than the OKW player in question usually to be able to build fuel caches with less delay, making it even harder to fight back.
27 Jul 2021, 19:43 PM
#2
avatar of DonnieChan

Posts: 2266 | Subs: 1

instead of writing that essay, you coulDve just watched your own replay to look what to do better
27 Jul 2021, 19:49 PM
#3
27 Jul 2021, 19:51 PM
#4
avatar of Lady Xenarra

Posts: 953

I suppose you haven't met LMG Obers yet, which walk all over almost all Allied infantry vet for vet at all ranges?

I don't even know where to begin with the inaccuracies. It's a regular Grenadier Kar 98 for one. grenadier_kar_98k_rifle_mp
Accuracy near 0.748
Accuracy mid 0.661
Accuracy far 0.598
27 Jul 2021, 19:51 PM
#5
avatar of MassaDerek

Posts: 197

instead of writing that essay, you coulDve just watched your own replay to look what to do better

Constructive criticism, thanks for the reply
27 Jul 2021, 19:53 PM
#6
avatar of MassaDerek

Posts: 197

I suppose you haven't met LMG Obers yet, which walk all over almost all Allied infantry vet for vet at all ranges?

LMG Obers only have one automatic weapon, which can be dropped and stolen.Atleast 50% of their overall DPS relies on the MG34, so they're not as bad as Fallshirms with an entire squad of non droppable FG42s that are not hindered as much by any squadmate dying.
27 Jul 2021, 19:59 PM
#7
avatar of Lady Xenarra

Posts: 953


LMG Obers only have one automatic weapon, which can be dropped and stolen.Atleast 50% of their overall DPS relies on the MG34, so they're not as bad as Fallshirms with an entire squad of non droppable FG42s that are not hindered as much by any squadmate dying.


55.7% at far range yes. Losing about 15% max dps per man but far more durable a squad. Falls are about as tough as infantry sections meanwhile (maybe even less depending) and lose 25% of their DPS per man.

3 Fallshirms in a single army is just target practice late game for tanks and artillery.

UKF elite infantry are practically given stock with the Infantry Section. In 3v3+ upgrading them should be no issue. Double Bren IS will beat Falls in a shootout vet for vet.

I'd address other points but I think others will have other things to say.
27 Jul 2021, 20:35 PM
#8
avatar of MassaDerek

Posts: 197



55.7% at far range yes. Losing about 15% max dps per man but far more durable a squad. Falls are about as tough as infantry sections meanwhile (maybe even less depending) and lose 25% of their DPS per man.

3 Fallshirms in a single army is just target practice late game for tanks and artillery.

UKF elite infantry are practically given stock with the Infantry Section. In 3v3+ upgrading them should be no issue. Double Bren IS will beat Falls in a shootout vet for vet.

I'd address other points but I think others will have other things to say.

Problem is that the Cromwell is unreliable dogshit and therefore isn't worth being built, and that whilst the Centaur is very good against inf blobs like Fallshirms and has paid off very well for me numerous times, the Centaur is still 100fuel and therefore delays my Hammer specialization rush, I don't like using british T4 outside of the Centaur and Firefly and the Centaur is a rare occurence for me since I usually try to do a 12-13 min Comet, because all other UKF armor is unreliable and will lead to you being overrun by PZ4s and Panthers so I can't get a counter inbetween those timings.
27 Jul 2021, 20:50 PM
#9
avatar of Descolata

Posts: 486


Snip


The Cromwell is INCREDIBLY reliable, with good scatter. It just doesn't have much 80 damage area, so it takes 2-3 shells to really kill models. Similar TTK for whole squads last I checked. MMX has the numbers.

Its just much much worse at single shot bleed than the P-4.

Its AT IS inconsistent without Hunt activated against anything heavier than a Vet 1 OST P-4. With Hunt it can fight pretty evenly due to the increased penetration.

LMG Obers are much nastier than Falls, and they are non-doc. Falls are just annoying because they can drop in annoying locations and have great fire-while-moving, making a Falls blob very noob friendly. Plus Falls show up before tanks, where many players don't exploit LVs enough to slap them around.
27 Jul 2021, 20:56 PM
#10
avatar of leithianz

Posts: 472

Here is the problem:
You played UKF.

OKW can get JLI or Obser or Fallshirms or ST or just go late game to win against UKF.

WM can...
well WM can play and win against UKF.
27 Jul 2021, 21:26 PM
#11
avatar of Klement Pikhtura

Posts: 772

Pretty much pre 4xFG-42 they have worse DPS then PGrens everywhere but at far range. The ambush bonus is nasty, but the squad bleeds as much as every 4 men elite infantry squad. And yes, I'm 100% with the guys about Obers being better.

It is a good unit, but definitely not OP right now, but it used to be that way, when falls had faust and just got their FG-42s buffed
27 Jul 2021, 22:02 PM
#12
avatar of FireFlyAT

Posts: 33

" Also this is from the perspective of a 3v3-4v4 UKF player, so I also have less squads than the OKW player in question usually to be able to build fuel caches with less delay, making it even harder to fight back. "

there is your problem
27 Jul 2021, 22:17 PM
#13
27 Jul 2021, 22:49 PM
#14
avatar of Katukov

Posts: 786 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post27 Jul 2021, 22:17 PMKoRneY


No need for selfies


smarter and sexier than 98% of okw players
27 Jul 2021, 23:07 PM
#15
avatar of Protos Angelus

Posts: 1515

Falls can be a nasty power creep, especially paired with puma in teamgames. Puma shuts down LV play vs them and they basically melt anything right out of the gate.
However, if you survive the power creep, they are a snareless unit that is expensive to reinforce, despite being 4 man. Not to mention they are doctrinal.
Guards are much more versatile than falls, so are the commandos. Falls are basically hot knife through butter vs infantry but that's it.
They are fine. If anything (big if), I'd increase them to 3CP. Doubt that it's necessary but might fix the falls vs vet1 mainlines engagement where they dominate.

Last game played vs falls spammer. One vet2 fall wiped my vet3 rifle from ambush in about 2 or 3 seconds, with me pressing retreat as soon as I saw the ambush. So I get the toxicity but they are really not OP.
28 Jul 2021, 04:44 AM
#16
avatar of SkysTheLimit

Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1

Falls are fine honestly. No snare anymore, just bully them vehicles

The ambush can be strong but coh2 just has shitty stealth detection in general. Stealth ambush units will always be strong unless they make detection more available for everyone
28 Jul 2021, 12:55 PM
#17
avatar of MassaDerek

Posts: 197

Falls are fine honestly. No snare anymore, just bully them vehicles

The ambush can be strong but coh2 just has shitty stealth detection in general. Stealth ambush units will always be strong unless they make detection more available for everyone

Dont have much access to vehicles up until the 12 min mark unless I rush for a centaur at the 10 minute mark if he's blobbing which is going to delay my Comet, or wait until the 12-14 min mark to get a Comet and be relatively safe against any PZ4 or Panther rush.
My only option at that point would be to make another Vickers or a Sniper or double sniper, but we all know thats a very risky play and manpower intensive with less payoff compared to OST/SOV sniper since the UKF sniper shoots slower.
28 Jul 2021, 13:10 PM
#18
avatar of Letzte Bataillon

Posts: 195


Dont have much access to vehicles up until the 12 min mark unless I rush for a centaur at the 10 minute mark if he's blobbing which is going to delay my Comet



An upgraded Universal Carrier wrecks OKW provided the map allows for long range engagements. It's my go to when I don't pick the Lend Lease commander. Though I can clearly see the scenario where the infantry blob just deletes the UC through sheer firepower...
28 Jul 2021, 13:16 PM
#19
avatar of MassaDerek

Posts: 197




An upgraded Universal Carrier wrecks OKW provided the map allows for long range engagements. It's my go to when I don't pick the Lend Lease commander. Though I can clearly see the scenario where the infantry blob just deletes the UC through sheer firepower...

UC can work and I utilise it sometimes but once a single AT gun gets on the field it's time to shine is over.Also automatic weapons like pioneer MP40 have higher DPS against the UC than proper rifles due to their firerate lol.
2-3 fully upgraded fallshirm will shred a UC due to the amount of fire going down range, there is no gurantee you're even gonna get a chance to get suppression off on them sadly.
28 Jul 2021, 13:24 PM
#20
avatar of waasdijki

Posts: 76

Please post the replay of the game where he beat you with falls, I would love to see it
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