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Petition to Nerf/Remove Soviet Mortar Flare

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28 Apr 2021, 16:40 PM
#81
avatar of Mr Carmine

Posts: 1285

jump backJump back to quoted post28 Apr 2021, 15:46 PMReverb
All flares should have their times cut in half (at least). It's currently 40 seconds of map hack for 30 muni in a faction that usually has muni out the ass, something like 15 seconds seems more appropriate. You cannot counter flares like recon planes and they stay up forever.


I need to test this but the soviet flares tripwire or mortar/sniper to my knowlidge dont stay up for 40 seconds.

Also soviets dont float muni anymore. They have have actual things that cost muni except mines now. Spamming flares means no 7th man no mines no flame throwers
28 Apr 2021, 18:20 PM
#82
avatar of Reverb

Posts: 253

Its 30 seconds of full illumination then the flare dies but the area under the flare is still revealed for a further 10 seconds.
28 Apr 2021, 19:34 PM
#83
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 5279

jump backJump back to quoted post28 Apr 2021, 15:46 PMReverb
All flares should have their times cut in half (at least). It's currently 40 seconds of map hack for 30 muni in a faction that usually has muni out the ass, something like 15 seconds seems more appropriate. You cannot counter flares like recon planes and they stay up forever.

Every unit in t2 has a muni ability. Within is the only machinegun that has to use munitions to properly suppress. Idk why the belief that soviet don't use munitions is still around considering that t2 probably uses more munitions than upgrading mainline infantry without the lasting effects. Oh and then at t4 they also (finally) have a muni upgrade as well.
Rejoice that the enemy is using half a weapon upgrade constantly for JUST 40 seconds of vision.
40 seconds of vision is one less flank stopping mine.
Its half of a 7th con model
Its one less repair speed increasing minesweeper upgrade
Its one less maxim do its job ability.
Its one less zis barrage

Its true soviet don't have pintles or early game weapon upgrades but beyond that they are as thristy, if not more so, than other factions only their drain is in immediate effect abilities and not lasting bonuses. Two flares cost as much as an lmg42 and even at that they are only as useful as the player can make of the Inte vs "now this squad has a whack more DPS and losing models hardly effects that"
28 Apr 2021, 20:50 PM
#84
avatar of frostbite

Posts: 593

jump backJump back to quoted post25 Apr 2021, 10:34 AMmrgame2
i been campaigning to cut all flare illumination times by 25-30% at least.

right now it illuminates big area and you cant really reposition until the drop ends.

sov mortar flare dont really last that long
28 Apr 2021, 22:22 PM
#85
avatar of Geblobt

Posts: 211

The cost and the duration of the flare is fine. Move it to vet 1 and the ability is completely fine. Soviet have good stock recon and Axis can counter it by wiping the unit with Werfer and Stuka.
28 Apr 2021, 23:27 PM
#86
avatar of Jilet

Posts: 556

jump backJump back to quoted post28 Apr 2021, 22:22 PMGeblobt
The cost and the duration of the flare is fine. Move it to vet 1 and the ability is completely fine. Soviet have good stock recon and Axis can counter it by wiping the unit with Werfer and Stuka.


I also agree with that the thing should be moved to vet 1 since the issues arise before you have a Werfer or a Stuka. In that time period, the mortar flare is basically uncounterable.
28 Apr 2021, 23:57 PM
#87
avatar of general_gawain

Posts: 905

If you demand a nerf for soviet flare you have to look at the whole faction and especially the T2 building.

T2 gives you:
- a wannabe MG
- a ATG which is inferior to counterpart in AT performance (and lost some of its strenght in versatility with nerf to barrage)
- a strong mortar because of vet0 flare

Imo the mortar flare is the one thing that makes T2 building worth building early on, since Penals and Sniper give you enough AI and AT power to skip MG / ATG until a backtech later on. I wouldn't touch mortar without compensating buffs to MG / ATG.

Edit: Just to add one thing. All those infantry flares (Infantry Company Rifles/PFs...) are uncounterable too. You will get one PF squad pretty fast to Vet1 for example and since a full 5-6 man infantry squad is much harder to wipe than a mortar, it gives you sight whenever you need it.
If mortar ist too strong talk about ability cost and reveal time. Moving it to vet1 will make it pretty useless in later game stages when getting your mortar decrewed by indirect counterfire or sometimes by a push is pretty common.


29 Apr 2021, 01:11 AM
#88
avatar of Protos Angelus

Posts: 1486

How bad do you have to be at a game to think that a soviet mortar is too oppressive with flares. I have yet to see one of the complainers actually play soviets and use mortar flare before minute 15-20 (if at all).
And don't even compare it to Spec ops flare. Spec ops deserves a nerf for one reason only: Anywhere on the map, not bound to unit.
If you're losing because the soviet is spamming flares then brother... L2P.
29 Apr 2021, 01:17 AM
#89
avatar of mrgame2

Posts: 1739

jump backJump back to quoted post28 Apr 2021, 18:20 PMReverb
Its 30 seconds of full illumination then the flare dies but the area under the flare is still revealed for a further 10 seconds.


amen brother, even a cut to 20s illum time is fairer. 30s is A LONG time in current state

so either move it back to vet1 or 20s.

imo vet1 seems better as other stock recon are gained on vet. heck a 222 get its extra vision at vet2!

quite game breaking in late game, where a sov just get a mortar for map hack. that time you are dealing with all unlocked abilities and arty and long range tanks

and a wafer can't do much against 6 man mortar
29 Apr 2021, 01:21 AM
#90
avatar of mrgame2

Posts: 1739

jump backJump back to quoted post27 Apr 2021, 08:25 AMKatitof

Soviet mortar can't win vs ost mortar vet1 onwards, because counterbarrage outranges it.


its like saying cb should come unlock like flare?
29 Apr 2021, 06:12 AM
#91
avatar of Mr Carmine

Posts: 1285

jump backJump back to quoted post29 Apr 2021, 01:17 AMmrgame2


amen brother, even a cut to 20s illum time is fairer. 30s is A LONG time in current state

so either move it back to vet1 or 20s.

imo vet1 seems better as other stock recon are gained on vet. heck a 222 get its extra vision at vet2!

quite game breaking in late game, where a sov just get a mortar for map hack. that time you are dealing with all unlocked abilities and arty and long range tanks

and a wafer can't do much against 6 man mortar


Lets put the 222 sight behind a toggle or muni ability in the interest of fairness. It does ai aa and light at while having massive vision at all times, wich cost nothing.
It gets 50 vision at vet 0 and 65 at vet 2. Thats more sight then a at gun or td can shoot. While doing ai aa and light at at the same time. Talking about about uncounterable...
the mortars flares cost muni the t70 and su85 require a toggle wich negativly affects other stats. The 222 has no drawbacks like that.

Every flare is one less mine, at satchel, at nade, delayes 7th man svt and flame thrower and the doctrinal pintles, less off maps used.

Please stop this endless nerfing of stuff thatviant broken. The actual to strong stuff has already been nerfed hard over the years. Now its just nitpicking and biting until soviets are back to being incompetent.
29 Apr 2021, 22:59 PM
#92
avatar of frostbite

Posts: 593

always people trying to call for nerfs on allies units that aint even that great as they make it sound lmao. might as well remove the mortar from the game it sucks anyways. german mortar be smacking always and allies players dont call for nerfs
30 Apr 2021, 00:23 AM
#93
avatar of Rocket

Posts: 725

Its fine, they wont fix okw arty flares so. Its almost like complaining about zis barage because you refuse to stop blobbing lmao. Soviet support weapons do nothing but buy them time and hold the line until stuka comes and just annihilates all of them, then what? Maybe kv-2 or isu152 with katushas can carry you but now youve spent too much in support weps and dont have vet squads to push back the blob other than using tools above to maximum efficiency.
30 Apr 2021, 15:39 PM
#94
avatar of mrgame2

Posts: 1739

as compromise, just do a slightest of nerf

vet0: illum time 15s
vet1: illum time back to 30s

right now, it is way too cheap late game to build a map hack unit.
30 Apr 2021, 16:46 PM
#95
avatar of Mr Carmine

Posts: 1285

jump backJump back to quoted post30 Apr 2021, 15:39 PMmrgame2
as compromise, just do a slightest of nerf

vet0: illum time 15s
vet1: illum time back to 30s

right now, it is way too cheap late game to build a map hack unit.


There is no need for any compromise. This issue is so not a problem. This is again one of those percieved or better jet imaginary problems. Wich stems from soviets cant have anything decent club, and its always viewed in a vacuum in an attempt to make it seem as a problem.

Thats its on a unit and costs 30 muni to use is balanced.

30 Apr 2021, 18:21 PM
#96
avatar of mrgame2

Posts: 1739



There is no need for any compromise. This issue is so not a problem. This is again one of those percieved or better jet imaginary problems. Wich stems from soviets cant have anything decent club, and its always viewed in a vacuum in an attempt to make it seem as a problem.

Thats its on a unit and costs 30 muni to use is balanced.



nope, its a stock unit that can work with ANY commander. 30 muni for late game maphack is too good at vet0. when balance team moved to vet0, they didn't study enough late game samples which we have now.

other recon abilities are not as free.
30 Apr 2021, 18:24 PM
#97
avatar of Mr Carmine

Posts: 1285

jump backJump back to quoted post30 Apr 2021, 18:21 PMmrgame2


nope, its a stock unit that can work with ANY commander. 30 muni for late game maphack is too good at vet0. when balance team moved to vet0, they didn't study enough late game samples which we have now.

other recon abilities are not as free.


You have a strange idea of free. The pio,s sight for example is free. The ir halftrack is free, m3 sight is free. The 222 sight is free and gets better at vet2.

30 muni for a timed ability is not free.
30 Apr 2021, 18:41 PM
#98
avatar of mrgame2

Posts: 1739



You have a strange idea of free. The pio,s sight for example is free. The ir halftrack is free, m3 sight is free. The 222 sight is free and gets better at vet2.

30 muni for a timed ability is not free.


ir ht was nerf until its mainly gone.

the rest are small unit sight, way different from the flare, im sure you knew that.

imo the slight split vet nerf suggested seems the fairest for now, win win for both parties. this is the way
30 Apr 2021, 23:09 PM
#99
avatar of Mr Carmine

Posts: 1285

jump backJump back to quoted post30 Apr 2021, 18:41 PMmrgame2


ir ht was nerf until its mainly gone.

the rest are small unit sight, way different from the flare, im sure you knew that.

imo the slight split vet nerf suggested seems the fairest for now, win win for both parties. this is the way


Those other small units provide extra vision. The 222 to a big degree, those are constant mobile sight providers, no time no cooldowns no toggle no cost and not stationary.
The flare is stationary timed with a cooldown and muni cost wich can be cast way out there.

Stop making problems where none excist
30 Apr 2021, 23:14 PM
#100
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17583 | Subs: 8

jump backJump back to quoted post30 Apr 2021, 18:41 PMmrgame2


ir ht was nerf until its mainly gone.

the rest are small unit sight, way different from the flare, im sure you knew that.

imo the slight split vet nerf suggested seems the fairest for now, win win for both parties. this is the way

You still haven't given a single valid reason why that would need to happen.
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