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Commander Update Beta 2021 - Soviet Feedback

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8 Apr 2021, 02:36 AM
#221
avatar of Aarotron

Posts: 552

120mm indeed does need some buff to its scatter, especially with delayed fuse.

I feel like also soviet industrys should not get a recon plane as doctrine does not have anything that really works with it. Keeping vehicle crew repairs would keep it focus on tank sustaining or ppsh for cons, as doctrine does not provide provide much for infantry. Kv 8 is also potential target as kv 8 and 2 somewhat overlap with roles, and could be replaced with something else. My persoal idea would be su 76 without direct fire but extended barrage lenght in around 9-10 rounds so it could be esentially light priest.
8 Apr 2021, 06:06 AM
#222
avatar of comm_ash
Patrion 14

Posts: 1156 | Subs: 1

Soviet Industry feels... weird currently. In my opinion, it does not really fit the theme of Soviet Industrial might as expected.

The abilities within it are confused, and though some of the changes from this patch are nice, the doctrine is still lacking in my opinion. Here are my proposals:

0CP - KV8: This ability does not fit this commander at all in my opinion. When people think of the mass produced tanks of the Soviet Union, they do not think of the KV8. I would swap this with the T34/85. Another idea I had, would be a "new" unit.

Reserve Armor You may produce "expedited" T34/76s from the tankoviy battalion command. These T34s have worse accuracy, worse armor, and less health than standard T34s, but make up for the cut corners with cheaper costs and faster production. The models could be forced to spawn with none of the little addons the regular T34 gets, except the boxy vents at the back to represent older models.

3CP - Repair Station: This ability is thematic and fine in my opinion.

3CP (or whatever) - Zis 6 Supply Truck: A welcome change that fixes one of the most inconsistent abilities in the game. Fine as is.

6CP (or whatever) - Recon Overflight: This ability does not fit at all in the doctrine in my opinion. Recon overflights fit commanders which represent planning for a battle, or assaults. I would replace with Conscript PPSH upgrade package, or with a new global activated ability that focuses on use of armor.

Deep Battle: 7 CP, 50 fu cost. Soviet vanguards advance deep into enemy territory, avoiding and encircling enemy strongpoints. All soviet vehicles move faster out of combat, and can detect vehicles and structures in the fog of war within 60 range. 30 second duration.

Desantiki Tactics 7CP, 100 mu cost. The Soviets quickly learned the value of keeping infantry with their armor, to the point where they dedicated battalions of men explicitly to ride upon their tanks and fight alongside their armored brethren. Player owned line infantry within range 20 of friendly armor gains a small speed boost, and can detect mines in range 30 (like how radio intercept used to work for mines) for the duration of the ability. These mines are still considered cloaked, so running over them would still cause them to go off. 30 second duration.
-This could also become a new unit (called Tankodesantiki), which is armed with PPSHs (but only a 5 man squad a la cavalry rifles.) They get the combined arms passive ability pgrens have.

12CP - KV2: The unique unit of this doctrine, and the original unit that came with Soviet Industry. I do not think it fits in this doctrine, but unfortunately I do not think it can be changed.
8 Apr 2021, 09:50 AM
#223
avatar of TickTack

Posts: 450

jump backJump back to quoted post2 Apr 2021, 11:16 AMOlfin


Thanks for explaining, it really need the buff then.

'Why are u reducing 120mm Mortars relode time they are already powerful'

Werhaboos 👍
8 Apr 2021, 11:23 AM
#224
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 5101



Axis stuns cost 30-45 munitions on top of the strafe.


And soviet one costs 90 fuel and 300mp.... I don't recall the exact conversion rates but I'd pit the soviet one costing more...

By nerfing anything aimed at killing heavies, how pray tell is soviet supposed to fight something like an elefant? Su85 will lose nose to nose, the su76... Yea that too... Zis? PTRS'? Cause I know it ain't the t34....
Perhaps when the allotted fuel is accumulated instead of calling in an elefant or JT the soviet player should just bug splat out of the game (save their pride but also affirm they are not intended to progress any further in the match by design)

They are equipped (arguably too much so) to deal with big cats, but casemate that our range them they have no options
8 Apr 2021, 12:14 PM
#225
avatar of Sander93

Posts: 3013 | Subs: 7

Did you even test the changes?
8 Apr 2021, 12:47 PM
#226
avatar of ZeroZeroNi

Posts: 1370

Can we plz keep the loiter in Guard Rifle Combined Arms.
8 Apr 2021, 12:55 PM
#227
avatar of flyingpancake

Posts: 182 | Subs: 2

Soviet reserve army

PPsH - you want to go T2 and do conscripts to use this

Team weapon supply drop - You want to go T1 and use this to get team weapons.


These abilities have horrible synergy.



After some testing i agree with this sentiment. The weapons come too late a 3CP for them to be stalled out too as well.

Either the PPSH package needs to effect penals as well in some way (like G43 with Grens/Pgrens) maybe give them the PPSH from the airborne commander or a single DP28 that locks out other weapon pick ups.
The weapon drop should be replaced with a call in from T1 either the M3 or a Sniper to better synergise with T2.

And on a barely related note. The PPSH Penals in Airborne need smoke or Urrah because right now they lack any kind of to get close to machineguns. This is compounded by that when you go Penals you will not likely have smoke mortars.
8 Apr 2021, 16:59 PM
#228
avatar of Olfin

Posts: 146


'Why are u reducing 120mm Mortars relode time they are already powerful'

Werhaboos 👍


My second best faction after OKW is Soviet by the way, and don't forget to be polite kid.
8 Apr 2021, 18:27 PM
#229
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 11651 | Subs: 1

Airborne Rally Point

Suggestions:
Move Guards strafe here and a reckon sweep
Make mini map info a timed ability
restrict reinforcement to ABG

Anti-Tank Ambush Tactics

Suggestions:
Anti-Tank Overwatch

Suggestions:

Booby Trap Territory

Suggestions:
damage changed to TOT forcing unit to wait until it can cap

Conscript Repair Kit


Suggestions:
repair speed to match vet 0 CE

DShK Airdrop/DShK call-in

Suggestions:
Remove sprint from vet 1
lower close DPS once vetted

Forward Headquarters

Suggestions:

IL-2 Bombing Run


Suggestions:

IL-2 PTAB AT Bombing Run

Redesign the ability, currently it very good at taking out truck but not vehicles
Suggestions:
Make damage via target tables so that it primarily hit vehicles
Lower cost CP
allow to arrive faster
keep damage relatively low but add temp criticals

Incendiary Artillery Barrage

Suggestions:
slightly reduce power so ATG can move out

ISU-152

Suggestions:
replace tracking with skill shot as vet 1 ability
replace mobility buffs with penetration bonus

KV-2

Suggestions:
reduce/remove mimum range in siege mode
replace mobility vet bonuses with Reload ones

KV-8

Suggestions:
Make the unit a call-in requiring T3
Move DOT from autofire to an ability
possibly lower fuel cost
Lower close penetration of 45mm gun

M-42 ATG

Suggestions:
increase damage to 100
scrap canister shot

M4C Sherman

Suggestions:
lower production time
remove radio network since the tank benefits from cheaper tank like the T-70/T-34/76 and replace it "war speed"

Mark Vehicle

Suggestions:
now provides 20+15% with 15% comes from the plane and is removed if the plane is shot down

ML-20

Suggestions:

Radio Intercept

Suggestions:
now a timed ability
message have different color letters

Recon Overflight

Suggestions:

Repair Station

Suggestions:

Scorched Earth Tactics

Suggestions:

T-34/85

Suggestions:
Replace vet 1 ability "flanking speed"
increase fuel cost by 5-10

Tank Hunter Ambush Tactics

Suggestions:
Zis as is
Allow camo only for SU-76/SU-85 with not rotation penalties
ability now used automatically when stationary without locking into position
adds +10 sight
remove first strike bonuses

Team Weapon Air Drop (new)

The problem with soviet Weapon drops is that the 6 men crew actually do damage and should be avoided
Suggestions:
Replace with call-in ATG that could be the USF M1 (without the AP around) or a German Pak

Vehicle Crew Repairs


Suggestions:
8 Apr 2021, 18:49 PM
#231
avatar of JohnSmith

Posts: 1239

jump backJump back to quoted post8 Apr 2021, 18:27 PMVipper

list of endless nerfs of what is fun to play against


I honestly do not believe that removing abilities, nerfing damage, and hiking up prices is a healthy way to balance Soviets commanders. How about a clear no to your list? Are you just trying to remove these commanders from gameplay?

The best way to balance is what the balance team is doing by rethinking the abilities! Don't just nerf stuff you don't like, that's just totally wrong!
9 Apr 2021, 04:44 AM
#234
avatar of FunPolice

Posts: 120



After some testing i agree with this sentiment. The weapons come too late a 3CP for them to be stalled out too as well.

Either the PPSH package needs to effect penals as well in some way (like G43 with Grens/Pgrens) maybe give them the PPSH from the airborne commander or a single DP28 that locks out other weapon pick ups.
The weapon drop should be replaced with a call in from T1 either the M3 or a Sniper to better synergise with T2.

And on a barely related note. The PPSH Penals in Airborne need smoke or Urrah because right now they lack any kind of to get close to machineguns. This is compounded by that when you go Penals you will not likely have smoke mortars.

Yeah add me as a third to that sentiment. The only build that even makes any sense with the commander is going T1 for sniper and clown car then just going conscripts. It’s a very specific build that I don’t think will ever work out. There needs to be a commitment to one of the other strategies instead of trying to stacked the line imo. Personally I think the commander should just be reworked almost from the ground up because it’s one of the worst designed ones imo. I know they said no new units but they did add the Luftwaffe field officer ostheer. In the files there are voice lines for a special Guard T34-85 so maybe that could be made into something? It could probably just be a T-34-85 but with extra abilities and effects added on like the Tiger Ace and what not. That could really be a standout feature of Reserve Army doctrine if it gets reworked.
9 Apr 2021, 07:05 AM
#235
avatar of Crecer13

Posts: 1806 | Subs: 2

Can commanders who received engineering structures (bunkers, tank traps) get a barbed wire field? Please.
9 Apr 2021, 15:16 PM
#236
avatar of GCC Strategos

Posts: 10


I think it's important that it is the public what kind of player you are, i.e. team games or 1v1, whether you play a lot or not. Otherwise one would not recognize the writer's motives. To me, I haven't actively played 1v1 for a good 1 year. But follow the tournaments and often watch 1v1 games in spectator mode, I know the current metas. In my day I was top 100 with all factions. I still play team games with friends from time to time (4v4) so ​​we're around the top 50. In addition, one should express my thanks to the people from the community who update, patch and balance the game. Since they are not paid for it and they sacrifice free time for it, one should not forget that. Hope my English is not too bad :)

Conscript Support Tactics
The Offmap ability complements each other well because you can play with either KV 1 or t34 with the doc, so you can switch off paks.

Guard Rifle Combined Arms Tactics
The ability is pretty much perfect as it is now, good damage output and you have to set it manually.

Lend-Lease Tactics
No more random drop of fuel, but a logistics truck looks good. The Browning goes well with Lend Lease.

Partisan Tactics
The ambush ability is strong and the way to only have 1 partisan squad and different upgrade paths looks good.

Reserve Army Tactics
The officer supports a good cons play together with the supply drop it can be played variably.

Soviet Anti-Infantry Tactics
The shock troops enable a possible anti vehicle defense with the upgrades what shocks cannot, so you can play more options.

Soviet Industry Tactics
The supply truck enables vehicles to be built quickly. The overflight spoots targets for the Katyusha. Only the KV8 does not fit into the doc because the T34 does enough Inf damage and is more mobile. Possibly T85?

Soviet Shock Army Tactics
The Doctrine is now a good all-rounder.

Tank Hunter Tactics
Yeah thats ok.

120mm Mortar
The mortar is now really usable except for the fused rounds. It has more accuracy for the barrage and then that fits.

152mm Howitizer Strike
Good offmap, maybe a little too cheap?

Advanced Fortifications
Sometimes useful.

Airborne Guards
The unit is now the Russian version of Commandos why not. Sometimes useful but you don't need them.

Armored Vehicle Detection
Its ok.

Assault Guards
Strong unit even without upgrades. The upgrades allow anti inf or anti vehicles to play different tactics.

B4-203mm Howitzer
Yes, good question how to balance this unit. My suggestion would be that the B4 shoots 3 shots the first shot hits exactly in the middle (if in the Fog of War with some scatter) and does 250 damage, the other 2 shots have the normal scatter of the B4 and only cause 100 damage the rate of fire should be a bit faster than in the current patch.

Conscript Assault Package
Looks like really strong special on mainline Inf.

Conscript Repair Package
Good addition to the ability.

Fear Propaganda
Looks like a nice change.

For the Motherland
Compared to the other ability (Radio Silence, Valiant Assault, Assault), the buffs are good and the ability is not too expensive.

IL-2 Rocket Run
Change looks ok.

IL-2 Sturmovik Strafing Run
The ability is now a good offmap.

IS-2
Bring in line with the other heavy Tanks.

KV-1 Heavy Tank
The changes are ok.

ML-20 152mm
The change is nice to see that gives the unit more usefulness.

Partisans
The change is interesting, you lose the shock factor with the partisans, but they should be compensated. The partisans should receive the movable camouflage of the commandos and also an ability which makes it possible to sabotage enemy points (negates the resources for 45s and all connected points). This turns the partisans into real ambush specialists and decapers.

PMD-6 Light Anti-Tank Mines
Somethimes usefull.

PTRS Conscripts
Nice to see.

Rapid Conscription
Trading Munition to Menpower somethimes usefull.

Shock Troops
Bring in Line with other special Inf.

Spy Network
Good change.

SVT Crates
Bring in Lines with G43.

ZIS-6 Cargo Truck
Solide Unit.
Pip
9 Apr 2021, 15:27 PM
#237
avatar of Pip

Posts: 1208

Can commanders who received engineering structures (bunkers, tank traps) get a barbed wire field? Please.


The one that slows units? It seems it causes a lot of unwanted side effects, I'm afraid. Same reason Deep Mud/Snow doesn't exist on maps anymore.

I think it's unlikely that's coming back, unless there's some way to make infantry path around it unless specifically instructed to go through it (And if it didn't affect retreating infantry).
9 Apr 2021, 15:43 PM
#238
avatar of Crecer13

Posts: 1806 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post9 Apr 2021, 15:27 PMPip


The one that slows units? It seems it causes a lot of unwanted side effects, I'm afraid. Same reason Deep Mud/Snow doesn't exist on maps anymore.

I think it's unlikely that's coming back, unless there's some way to make infantry path around it unless specifically instructed to go through it (And if it didn't affect retreating infantry).


Honestly, I don't see any problems here. Can the infantry fall into a German minefield when retreating? Easily. So it is with the barbed wire field. They will perform a similar function, preventing surprise attacks. The barbed wire field is easy to destroy with a mortar as well as a minefield.
Pip
9 Apr 2021, 15:49 PM
#239
avatar of Pip

Posts: 1208



Honestly, I don't see any problems here. Can the infantry fall into a German minefield when retreating? Easily. So it is with the barbed wire field. They will perform a similar function, preventing surprise attacks. The barbed wire field is easy to destroy with a mortar as well as a minefield.


Mines cost munitions to place, though, and regular Barbed Wire already exists to help prevent surprise attacks. What's the specific benefit to the other type of Barbed Wire?
9 Apr 2021, 15:51 PM
#240
avatar of Jan Ziska

Posts: 70

i would like if the b4 203 can keep its 640 single shot barrage as a option. so it can either shoot the 3 for 300 damage but 320 would be better becuz its scatter is still horrible its likely to miss its target unless first shot gets more accuracy. or it can shoot the signle 640 damage shot. idk but i like the anti tank feature the single heavy shot offers i dont buy it to hold points. i use this thing alot



I agree with this
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