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Commander Update Beta 2021 - Soviet Feedback

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Only Relic postRelic 31 Mar 2021, 22:00 PM
#1
avatar of JohnT_RE
Developer Relic Badge

Posts: 49 | Subs: 12

Please post all feedback from the Commander Update beta for the Soviet faction here.

Full notes here

Overview of old versus new line-ups:
Commander Balance Patch 2021 Spreadsheet
31 Mar 2021, 22:01 PM
#2
avatar of Napalm

Posts: 1588 | Subs: 2

Give the KV2 purpose and love!
31 Mar 2021, 23:17 PM
#3
avatar of RoastinGhost

Posts: 406 | Subs: 1

I recommend making the B-4 work more like the Sturmtiger, in that it does 580 damage and suppresses in a radius. I think firing 3 weaker shots reduces the unit's identity.
31 Mar 2021, 23:18 PM
#4
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 11758 | Subs: 1

At first glance:

Assault Guards
AT CP2 300MP
3SVT+3Thomspon is recipe to disaster the unit is stronger than live Ranger once vetted
4SVT+2Elite bazookas again recipe to disaster most cost efficient AT unit with decent AI

For the Motherland


Nice to see that my suggestion of adding durability to this abilities instead of just DPS is being tested

KV-1 Heavy Tank
Nice to see that my suggestions about increasing pop/removing damage reduction is being tested
31 Mar 2021, 23:55 PM
#5
avatar of Kasarov
Senior Modmaker Badge

Posts: 376 | Subs: 1

I don't agree with M2HB for Soviet Lend Lease. Both DShK and M2 HMGs perform similarly, and thus this feels like a change for the sake of change, with the only tangible difference being the arc of the MG. Historically, the M2.50cals given to the Soviets were those mounted on vehicles, not the man-portable one for infantry use. While there are plenty of anachronisms already present in CoH2, if we can help it, we should avoid creating more to respect historical authenticity.

Instead, I suggest a new Soviet LV: Lend-Lease Universal Carrier. The US weren't the only ones to send equipment to the USSR, after all.



A Soviet Universal Carrier offers a new LV choice, allowing for interesting alternative to the standard M3 vs 222 matchup. While it doesn't allow passengers to fire out, it may have additional utility such as a PTRS-41 drop (sometimes Soviet carriers replaced their hull MGs with AT rifles; you can see this in the pictures above) or a mine laying ability. Of course, there's also the pintle upgrade...

However, instead of a DP-28 or PTRS (which are unfortunately not possible in-game due to lack of pintle animation states), you mount the good ol DShK, unlocking Suppressive Fire similar to Vickers K (potency can be adjusted to suit) and perhaps AP Rounds.

The DShK modification was not only historical, but it's entirely possible to implement in-game via the same method used to give the 250 halftrack the MG42. Additionally, it offers a new Soviet LV, allowing for interesting alternative to the M3 vs 222 matchup. It also retains both the HMG and the troop carrier LV within the commander. Finally, the Soviets did not really paint camouflage over their Universal Carriers, so the lack of a skin is not a significant drawback in a historical perspective.
31 Mar 2021, 23:57 PM
#6
avatar of Flying Dustbin

Posts: 263 | Subs: 1

Defensive Doctrine having 3 different slots taken up with single support weapon call-ins seems a little lackluster now, especially compared to the new Soviet Reserve ability which bundles a maxim and a ZiS for 350mp (which I think needs some munition cost like US weapon drops), especially since the ZiS is superior to the piddly little 45mm.

Could maybe condense them into 1 or 2 slots and just make them buildable from the main HQ when you hit 2 CP or something?
Infantry Repair tactics or the the repair station from Soviet Industry would be a good fit for a free slot, just as utility.
Don't want to go overboard and shove any extra heavy tanks or airstrikes in.

Also don't entirely agree with the IL-2 rocket penetration nerf. It's already a little finnicky to use. On top of T-34 ram cheese being (rightfully) removed, you gotta hope you're close enough to the map edge, and there's no tall objects in the way ready to gobble up your rockets.
340 penetration right down to 80 penetration seems a little extreme. Hopefully we can find a middle ground, maybe add extra deflection damage, or inflicting a blind tank critical?
1 Apr 2021, 01:39 AM
#7
avatar of Chukiki

Posts: 112


KV2 is absolute underpowered.
Crocodile and KV8 should get the HP and armor of their normal version (kv1 and churchil)
1 Apr 2021, 02:12 AM
#8
avatar of blancat

Posts: 810

Partisan Tactics

Tank Hunter Partisans replaced with Anti-Tank Gun Camouflage

If this commander don't have AT Partizan, why would you use this commander?


Soviet Anti-Infantry Tactics

Shock Troops replaced with Assault Guards

The Assault Guard is a trash infantry that does nothing better than the Shock Troopers



Plz No
1 Apr 2021, 02:39 AM
#9
avatar of general_gawain

Posts: 734

Overall real great changes. Some points I want to remark:

Assault Guards:
- they are missing the elite Bazooka indication (the one Rangers and Paras have in the lower right corner)
- if I want to call them in it says my population limited is reached
- great that they come without M5 now at 2 CPs and have the option to equip Super Bazooka
- they are not trash (-> #8 blancat) because they are more versatile and have access to decent AT weaponary
- if they have to much AI value with upgraded Super Bazookas (-> #4 Vipper) think about giving them six PPsH from the start again, that way they can be stopped by mid to long range infantry units like Obers or Grens

Partisan Tactics:
- Your changes won't make them work, because their only shining moment was the initial moment they were called in to wreck a heavily damaged vehicle or kill weapon crews from behind. With the two upgrade paths this moment is gone now, absolutely wrecking the Partisans commander beyond repair. Their real problem was always their combat value after this initial moment. Too squishy, too much bleed. Maybe they should get a fifth man with the T3/T4 upgrade for Conscripts and Penals? But keep the two different call-ins please and change them in a different way.

152mm-howitzer-Strike
- finally a decent general damage dealing offmap for Soviets, was overdue -> nice one

ZiS-6 Supply Truck (-> same as Opel Blitz)
- the fuel drop was quirky and inconsistent -> great change

Advanced Fortifications
- I do miss the new bunker, can't find where it gets constructed at engineers
- the light AT mine seems to be not worth it, it would be more interesting if this ability would grant a heavy mine to M5 (same as Riegel mine / M20 mine)




1 Apr 2021, 03:26 AM
#10
avatar of blancat

Posts: 810



Assault Guards:
- they are missing the elite Bazooka indication (the one Rangers and Paras have in the lower right corner)
- if I want to call them in it says my population limited is reached
- great that they come without M5 now at 2 CPs and have the option to equip Super Bazooka
- they are not trash (-> #8 blancat) because they are more versatile and have access to decent AT weaponary
- if they have to much AI value with upgraded Super Bazookas (-> #4 Vipper) think about giving them six PPsH from the start again, that way they can be stopped by mid to long range infantry units like Obers or Grens








What makes Assault Guard better than Shock Troopers?

Dps? No
smoke? No
Armor? No
Does this unit have any unique active skills?

This unit is just an improvised copy-pasta unit with no personality
MMX
1 Apr 2021, 03:54 AM
#11
avatar of MMX

Posts: 725 | Subs: 1


Partisan Tactics:
- Your changes won't make them work, because their only shining moment was the initial moment they were called in to wreck a heavily damaged vehicle or kill weapon crews from behind. With the two upgrade paths this moment is gone now, absolutely wrecking the Partisans commander beyond repair. Their real problem was always their combat value after this initial moment. Too squishy, too much bleed. Maybe they should get a fifth man with the T3/T4 upgrade for Conscripts and Penals? But keep the two different call-ins please and change them in a different way.


i haven't been able to test it yet (do they still come at 1 cp?), but from how i read the patch notes i have to agree here. unless the sidegrade is more or less instant i'm afraid pretty much all of the shock value after the initial spawn is gone and their base stats offer way too little to redeem this. partisan's reinforcement cost is still too expensive given their overall defensive stats and their damage output (both AI and AT versions) scales rather poorly into the lategame as well.
adding a 5th model on vet3 or at least some form of reinforcement cost discount would really help out in that regard. also, i've been floating the idea of providing some form of on-map reinforcement from ambient buildings (e.g. when spy network is activated), which could give them a bit more longevity during engagements where they'd normally be forced to retreat.
in any case, i hope there's still something in the pipeline for later iterations of the preview beta to give partisans some more general purpose in exchange for the lost shock value.
1 Apr 2021, 04:55 AM
#12
avatar of Crecer13

Posts: 1814 | Subs: 2

I will continue to say this like a stubborn ram. Soviet Airborne Forces - animation of parachuting and skin or GTFO of this commander.
1 Apr 2021, 05:31 AM
#13
avatar of ZeroZeroNi

Posts: 1428

B4 in tank hunter OMG. I think I just Arrived.
1 Apr 2021, 05:40 AM
#14
avatar of EffenNewbie

Posts: 1750

B4 in tank hunter OMG. I think I just Arrived.


The damage was cut down to 300 so it isn't like the old B4. Still, it might make it more usable.
1 Apr 2021, 05:45 AM
#15
avatar of Unit G17

Posts: 465

I like the airborne and assault guard changes.

The partisan changes tho, ugh, just no. Not only they lose their shock value, but you have to pay massive amounts of munitions on top of it! And it is still the old, super fragile partisan models we are talking about that gets deleted in mere seconds if caught out of cover. Spy network also being nerfed on top, making it nearly pointless and about only as useful as radio intercept in team games.
And what the doctrine receives in return? AT gun camo, bruh...
1 Apr 2021, 05:49 AM
#16
avatar of Crecer13

Posts: 1814 | Subs: 2

PTRS for Conscripts, why if there is PTRS Penalties. Replace to AT rifle grenades or grenade launchers or M10.

Replacing the IL-2 attack with the IL-2 strafe. An excellent solution to replace an acceptable ability with a useless one. As I understand it, they just decided to remove it from the game.
1 Apr 2021, 05:59 AM
#17
avatar of ZeroZeroNi

Posts: 1428

jump backJump back to quoted post31 Mar 2021, 23:18 PMVipper
At first glance:


4SVT+2Elite bazookas again recipe to disaster most cost efficient AT unit with decent AI

Don't 2x PG stg out dps 4 SVT till range 30???
1 Apr 2021, 06:06 AM
#18
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 11758 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post31 Mar 2021, 23:18 PMVipper
At first glance:


4SVT+2Elite bazookas again recipe to disaster most cost efficient AT unit with decent AI

Don't 2x PG stg out dps 4 SVT till range 30???

How much do PG cost?
How much is DPS PG lose when they drop a model?
How much DPS do they have on the move?

I suggest you test AT PG vs AT Assault Guards fight and see which unit wins.
And why are comparing PG with assault guards and Paras which are closer.

AT assault guards have similar AI DPS above mid while arriving one CP earlier and being cheaper.
(edited to add the paras comparison)
1 Apr 2021, 06:10 AM
#19
avatar of JibberJabberJobber

Posts: 1581 | Subs: 3


Partisan Tactics:
- Your changes won't make them work, because their only shining moment was the initial moment they were called in to wreck a heavily damaged vehicle or kill weapon crews from behind. With the two upgrade paths this moment is gone now, absolutely wrecking the Partisans commander beyond repair. Their real problem was always their combat value after this initial moment. Too squishy, too much bleed. Maybe they should get a fifth man with the T3/T4 upgrade for Conscripts and Penals? But keep the two different call-ins please and change them in a different way.



jump backJump back to quoted post1 Apr 2021, 03:54 AMMMX


i haven't been able to test it yet (do they still come at 1 cp?), but from how i read the patch notes i have to agree here. unless the sidegrade is more or less instant i'm afraid pretty much all of the shock value after the initial spawn is gone and their base stats offer way too little to redeem this. partisan's reinforcement cost is still too expensive given their overall defensive stats and their damage output (both AI and AT versions) scales rather poorly into the lategame as well.
adding a 5th model on vet3 or at least some form of reinforcement cost discount would really help out in that regard. also, i've been floating the idea of providing some form of on-map reinforcement from ambient buildings (e.g. when spy network is activated), which could give them a bit more longevity during engagements where they'd normally be forced to retreat.
in any case, i hope there's still something in the pipeline for later iterations of the preview beta to give partisans some more general purpose in exchange for the lost shock value.



They might have lost some shock value, but overall I'd say they got buffed:

AT Partisans
- Require upgrade time
- From 2 CP to 1 CP
- From 280mp to 210mp + 60 munitions
- Vehicle Detection added
- From rifles that were team weapon crew equivalent to rifles that are guard mosin equivalent
- 23% lower veterancy requirements
- From 8 to 5 pop
- No longer need tech for AT nade
- (Not sure if some of their previous veterancy got brought over to them)

AI Partisans
- Require upgrade time
- Can be reinforced up to 5 men once upgraded.
- Cost from 210mp to 236mp (reinforce included) + 45 munitions
- From 4 to 6 pop (reinforce included)
- No longer need tech for Molotov



1 Apr 2021, 06:10 AM
#20
avatar of ZeroZeroNi

Posts: 1428



The damage was cut down to 300 so it isn't like the old B4. Still, it might make it more usable.

3 shots dudes. And AT direct shot is still the same right, i didn't see anything about it.
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