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Commander Update Beta 2021 - Soviet Feedback

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1 Apr 2021, 06:12 AM
#21
avatar of ZeroZeroNi

Posts: 1557

jump backJump back to quoted post1 Apr 2021, 06:06 AMVipper

How much do PG cost?
How much is DPS PG lose when they drop a model?
How much DPS do they have on the move?

I suggest you test AT PG vs AT Assault Guards fight and see which unit wins.
At close range PG's will win for sure they have high enough dps still to mow down infantry not suited to fight at that range.
1 Apr 2021, 06:15 AM
#22
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 12262 | Subs: 1

At close range PG's will win for sure they have high enough dps still to mow down infantry not suited to fight at that range.

AT PG blob simply do not work.

As I added in original post compares with Paras not PGs
MMX
1 Apr 2021, 06:28 AM
#23
avatar of MMX

Posts: 842 | Subs: 1






They might have lost some shock value, but overall I'd say they got buffed:

AT Partisans
- Require upgrade time
- From 2 CP to 1 CP
- From 280mp to 210mp + 60 munitions
- Vehicle Detection added
- From rifles that were team weapon crew equivalent to rifles that are guard mosin equivalent
- 23% lower veterancy requirements
- From 8 to 5 pop
- No longer need tech for AT nade
- (Not sure if some of their previous veterancy got brought over to them)

AI Partisans
- Require upgrade time
- Can be reinforced up to 5 men once upgraded.
- Cost from 210mp to 236mp (reinforce included) + 45 munitions
- From 4 to 6 pop (reinforce included)
- No longer need tech for Molotov





oh wow, thanks a lot for the detailed breakdown and clarification! this looks much better than what is stated in the patch notes, AT partys now coming at 1 cp is indeed a great change and i have to admit that i've overlooked the part with the kar98/guard mosin equivalent. the cost/pop reduction is also awesome and should help to make them more affordable early on. still a bit unsure if the high manpower bleed will allow for builds with more than just 2-3 supplemental squads, but time and testing will tell.
1 Apr 2021, 06:31 AM
#24
avatar of Olekman
Modmaker Badge

Posts: 207

Regarding the combined Partisans:
What are upgrade times for their paths? I assume that they aren't instant and it will limit their ambush-on-infiltration role.
What is their vet? AT and AI Partisans currently have different vet bonuses (e.g. AT getting more penetration and getting more received accuracy bonuses than AI for some reason) and different experience requirements for their vet.

All in all I'm very glad that they are merged into one unit, though they might need some final touches.
1 Apr 2021, 06:48 AM
#25
avatar of Unit G17

Posts: 493

They might have lost some shock value, but overall I'd say they got buffed:

AT Partisans
- Require upgrade time
- From 2 CP to 1 CP
- From 280mp to 210mp + 60 munitions
- Vehicle Detection added
- From rifles that were team weapon crew equivalent to rifles that are guard mosin equivalent
- 23% lower veterancy requirements
- From 8 to 5 pop
- No longer need tech for AT nade
- (Not sure if some of their previous veterancy got brought over to them)

AI Partisans
- Require upgrade time
- Can be reinforced up to 5 men once upgraded.
- Cost from 210mp to 236mp (reinforce included) + 45 munitions
- From 4 to 6 pop (reinforce included)
- No longer need tech for Molotov


This does put them in a slightly better light than the info shown in the notes, but they are still the same, fragile models, right? Spending 60 muni on a squad that may get wiped in a glimpse, ugh...
1 Apr 2021, 06:56 AM
#26
avatar of Chukiki

Posts: 112



Soviet Anti-Infantry Tactics

Shock Troops replaced with Assault Guards

The Assault Guard is a trash infantry that does nothing better than the Shock Troopers


Plz No

this.
As far as I know are Shock troops the better infantry killers. And the whole doctrine is anti-infantry.
Why would u replace shocks with guards?!?!
1 Apr 2021, 06:59 AM
#27
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17547 | Subs: 8

You people forget that assault guards, while still meh "assault inf" just became best soviet AT squad with access to 2 elite bazookas.
1 Apr 2021, 07:06 AM
#28
avatar of ZeroZeroNi

Posts: 1557

You people forget that assault guards, while still meh "assault inf" just became best soviet AT squad with access to 2 elite bazookas.

Personally I thought this change would be thematic but I wonder if anyone will actually use em for that. I mean 300 mp SVT Squads with at 2 cp's with strong all round vet bonuses and useful abilities seems pretty sweat too me.
1 Apr 2021, 07:13 AM
#29
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17547 | Subs: 8


Personally I thought this change would be thematic but I wonder if anyone will actually use em for that. I mean 300 mp SVT Squads with at 2 cp's with strong all round vet bonuses and useful abilities seems pretty sweat too me.

Its not exactly thematic for infantry doctrine, but it very much is for lend lease.
And the squad rework, overall, looks solid.
1 Apr 2021, 07:18 AM
#30
avatar of ZeroZeroNi

Posts: 1557


Its not exactly thematic for infantry doctrine, but it very much is for lend lease.
And the squad rework, overall, looks solid.

I honestly don't understand why people are so angry about loosing shocks in anti infantry. Not like they were using that commander oftern to begin with.
1 Apr 2021, 07:57 AM
#31
avatar of Heavy Sapper

Posts: 1073

I dont know, but i feel like 6 man fully equipped with svt are what normal guard rifle should look like, not assault guard. Guards are described as veteran troop who get the best equipment but in game they are poorer armed than penal, which is lame. Still, that was only my thought and the game design make guard like what we have now.

Back to assault guard, 6 man squad with a couple of Elite zook sound too durable. It can be that squad come as 5 man and only the thompson upgrade increase squad size to 6.
1 Apr 2021, 07:58 AM
#32
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 12262 | Subs: 1

Partisan are simply over buffed and expected to be the selling point of the the whole commander.

In addition now share 2 abilities with "Mechanized Support Tactics" and compare pale (unless 1vs1)

They seem as cost efficient as grenadier than can, infiltrate, cap faster, have better sight, build trap/mines/wire and can then, ambush transition to more cost efficient AT unit than storm troopers.

Suggestions:
Radio intercept
remove from the commander or bundle it with spy network in order to free an extra slot.

mark target
remove from "Mechanized Support Tactics" and from "Guard Motor Coordination Tactics" it a powerful ability and could become the selling point for other weaker commanders. The change will also make ISU and T-34/85 commander become more balance one vs other. (mark target can become available to tank hunters).

Partisan
The idea of merging AT/AI partisan in 1 is bad. Unit should have different cost/different vet bonuses/different XP value/reinforcement cost/...

Keep both partisan in one slot but use make enter the field differently:
AT partisan now build from HQ
AI partisan now as an infiltration unit

AI partisan start as 5 men with 5 conscript mosin and lose their grenade (camo infatry should have DOT grenades)

AT partisan get increase durability but lose the camo or have pay munition to upgrade with static camo only. No first strike bonuses.

That change will help better design both units.

IL-2 bombing
Add the IL-2 bombing to the commander.

Camo zis
One can even test replacing the camo zis with a stolen Pak with 4 men partisan crew.


1 Apr 2021, 08:13 AM
#33
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17547 | Subs: 8

jump backJump back to quoted post1 Apr 2021, 07:58 AMVipper
Partisan are simply over buffed

How?
Vet did very little for AT partisans and the change nerfed them hard as you no longer can use them in emergency call-in to help finish off something.
AI partisans were trash tier in combat for years now and very much deserve this change as even in perfect setup, they were losing to any other infantry, even when ambushing after opponent fell to concussion trap.

Don't panic, it won't turn them into commandos just because they are 5 man now when upgraded.
1 Apr 2021, 08:22 AM
#34
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 12262 | Subs: 1

Tank hunters

Conscript PTRS Package
Moving to CP is a terrible idea. Want to create snipers that can not be countered by vehicles because their counter will arrive before the vehicle?

Scrap the upgrade and replace with a new "AT conscript" infatry with different abilities/vet bonus/reinforcement cost/...
or
Rename the ability AT training, Ability now replaces AT sathcel with AT grenade volley that homes for Penal (one could even experiment with adding 10% penetration for Penal)

Conscript able to to upgrade with 2 PTRS for 40 munition can no longer ourah and get faust instead of AT grenade for free, can still use molotov and can build tank traps.


PMD-6M Light AT Mines
No reason for bunker with this ability .

Tank traps, increase build time, reduce size so ballistic weapon to not hit them or add damage reductions/armor, change cover for green to yellow

Tank Hunter Ambush Tactics
A badly designed ability.
Camo T-70 in reckon mode is cheesy
T-34/76 is better vs Infantry with the first strike bonus
SU-76 already has the ability
SU-85 has enough penetration but is crippled by rotation speed.

Scrap the idea for T-70, T-34/76.

Allow the ability only for SU-76/SU-85. Remove first strike bonuses add sight bonus and rotation bonus (change appliers to SU-76 vet ability). SU-76 get first strike penetration bonus with this ability.

B-4 203mm Howitzer

Artillery does not fit the theme of the commander replace with mark target or with new Armored Vehicle Detection that is available only 1 commander.

IL-2 PTAB AT Bombing Run
Fix the ability as an AT ability, currently it far better for taking out OKW truck. Probably tone down and make cheaper.
1 Apr 2021, 08:45 AM
#35
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17547 | Subs: 8

jump backJump back to quoted post1 Apr 2021, 08:22 AMVipper
Tank hunters

Conscript PTRS Package
Moving to CP is a terrible idea. Want to create snipers that can not be countered by vehicles because their counter will arrive before the vehicle?

You do realize AT penals arrive faster and are stock?
This is not an argument.

Scrap the upgrade and replace with a new "AT conscript" infatry with different abilities/vet bonus/reinforcement cost/...
or
Rename the ability AT training, Ability now replaces AT sathcel with AT grenade volley that homes for Penal (one could even experiment with adding 10% penetration for Penal)

Conscript able to to upgrade with 2 PTRS for 40 munition can no longer ourah and get faust instead of AT grenade for free, can still use molotov and can build tank traps.

Or do nothing, because the upgrade is very distinct from penal one.

PMD-6M Light AT Mines
No reason for bunker with this ability.

Why? Mines are defensive, so are bunkers and the doctrine happens to be shitty.

Tank traps, increase build time, reduce size so ballistic weapon to not hit them or add damage reductions/armor, change cover for green to yellow

1 Apr 2021, 09:23 AM
#36
avatar of WAAAGH2000

Posts: 687

Maybe replace more Shock with Assault Guards?
1 Apr 2021, 09:39 AM
#37
avatar of Clarity

Posts: 477

Right now the biggest problem I see is the 6-man 50 cal call-in. Even though it's 9 pop cap its definitely too durable and only has a reinforce cost of 15 unless its decrewed. Personally I would make it essentially a 2 CP call-in version of the USF 50 cal. So 280 mp and 7 pop cap, 4 men instead.
1 Apr 2021, 09:54 AM
#38
avatar of Smartie

Posts: 834 | Subs: 1

A lot of cool stuff. Happy that Soviets get finally a new strong off map arty. Shock Army in its current state is too strong though. Shock troops+ T34/85 AND the new off map is just a little bit to much.
1 Apr 2021, 10:09 AM
#39
avatar of Aradan

Posts: 991

More T34/85 is good news.
1 Apr 2021, 10:10 AM
#40
avatar of Aradan

Posts: 991

....... Shock troops+ T34/85 AND the new off map is just a little bit to much.

Axis can combine any infantry with panter. No problem.
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