Now a lot of the crazy mechanics coh2 used to have are no more. The IR HT used to have an ability that was very OP and that's the only thing it did so removing it kinda removed it from the game. So I ask the balance team to reintroduce the IR HT's fow hacks back but at a weaker and more cumbersome capacity.
The balance change that made the auto fire for a lot of the problematic arty did a decent job. It made afking with unit less effective than actively using it. Maybe something of that nature could be done to make the thing not as cancerous and still have it's original map hacks.
With how much of the game interesting mechanics are disappearing alongside how very similar each faction is getting every patch I would like some of more unique interesting mechanics to come back. Not the unreasonable ones though.
IR HT's broken ability to come back
4 Mar 2021, 12:53 PM
#1
Posts: 1563
4 Mar 2021, 13:10 PM
#2
Posts: 999 | Subs: 1
iirc the maphack wasn't removed because it was op, but rather because there was an unfixable bug that made it permanent for some units under certain conditions. so unless you came up with a fix to prevent it from being abusable again i doubt it'll make a comeback in any form... or maybe you have a different proposal that doesn't involve the same mechanic in which case i'm all ears
||| ScatterThis! - Tank AI calculation made easy ||| CoH2 Pen Calc - Tank vs tank... who wins against who and by what margin? |||
4 Mar 2021, 13:21 PM
#3
Posts: 1563
iirc the maphack wasn't removed because it was op, but rather because there was an unfixable bug that made it permanent for some units under certain conditions. so unless you came up with a fix to prevent it from being abusable again i doubt it'll make a comeback in any form... or maybe you have a different proposal that doesn't involve the same mechanic in which case i'm all ears
Will it still have the same bug in the 64 bit???
4 Mar 2021, 13:39 PM
#4
Posts: 999 | Subs: 1
not even sure if it was ever figured out what exactly caused the bug, but i'd say it's rather unlikely the 64 bit update fixed it by accident. or maybe it did, that would certainly be a welcome change to the usual introduction of new bugs with each new patch
||| ScatterThis! - Tank AI calculation made easy ||| CoH2 Pen Calc - Tank vs tank... who wins against who and by what margin? |||
4 Mar 2021, 14:03 PM
#5
Posts: 3110 | Subs: 2
not even sure if it was ever figured out what exactly caused the bug, but i'd say it's rather unlikely the 64 bit update fixed it by accident. or maybe it did, that would certainly be a welcome change to the usual introduction of new bugs with each new patch
With the amount of bugs that are yet to be discovered, you never know what accidentally got fixed without ever anyone noticing.
On topic though: as long as the IRHT has this bug, there will never be a come back of this ability.
4 Mar 2021, 14:21 PM
#6
Posts: 945
Prob best to just leave the IRHT as it is, more versatile uses overall and not obnoxious to kill behind shotblockers & revealing your whole army. Still has the map hax in the form of a timed ability anyway.
I've known OKW players wanting to kill for a nondoc recon.
I've known OKW players wanting to kill for a nondoc recon.
4 Mar 2021, 15:14 PM
#7
Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2
The mechanic itself (any kind of beam that reveals units) is bugged and no one was able to fix it in 6/7 years. Which is why it was first removed from the Valentine and later on removed from the IR HT.
My controls weren't working
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
4 Mar 2021, 15:29 PM
#8
Posts: 1594
The closest you could come to a similar ability without potentially causing the same bug would be to give the IRHT a timed ability to give itself vision unobstructed by sight blockers in its "beam".
4 Mar 2021, 15:31 PM
#9
Posts: 17896 | Subs: 8
The closest you could come to a similar ability without potentially causing the same bug would be to give the IRHT a timed ability to give itself vision unobstructed by sight blockers in its "beam".
Like the scout plane ability it has now?
Also its detection ability reveals everything behind shot blockers, so it already does that in balanced way.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
4 Mar 2021, 15:38 PM
#10
Posts: 1594
Like the scout plane ability it has now?
No, that's a scout plane, unsurprisingly, and doesn't have the same thematic implementation the old maphack beam had, nor what I suggested would. A flare wouldn't be the same either, despite also being stronger.
The thread is about the IR HTs beam, and as others have explained to OP, the old detection ability cannot come back due to an unfixable bug, so this discussion is specifically surrounding that beam, how it is now, and if something similar WERE to return how it would need to be different.
It doesn't need an ability like this, due to the new scout plane being fantastic for OKW, but if the balance team ever wanted to revisit the ability this is the only way I can see it being added without potentially causing the same bug. I mean, This is basically the same thing I said in the post you quoted, but I guess I have to re-explain it to you.
4 Mar 2021, 15:40 PM
#11
Posts: 17896 | Subs: 8
The thread is about the IR HTs beam
Yes, and the fact that it isn't coming back due to game breaking bug that is impossible to identify, you can work with what you have or don't use the unit.
Its not getting ACTUAL map hack.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
4 Mar 2021, 15:46 PM
#12
Posts: 1594
Yes, and the fact that it isn't coming back due to game breaking bug that is impossible to identify, you can work with what you have or don't use the unit.
Its not getting ACTUAL map hack.
What are you even blathering about? It is known that the old detection beam isnt coming back due to the unfixable bug, I've said this twice already.
I've not suggested this ability be added, I've merely stated that this would be the only way to add a similar ability to the one it had back for the unit without encountering the same bug. Are you inventing some reality where I've said the Uhu is unusable now?
You know it still has a beam, right? Its just that it gives regular, blockable vision, rather than the maphack pizza slice it once did?
4 Mar 2021, 15:57 PM
#13
Posts: 17896 | Subs: 8
What are you even blathering about? It is known that the old detection beam isnt coming back due to the unfixable bug, I've said this twice already.
I've not suggested this ability be added, I've merely stated that this would be the only way to add a similar ability to the one it had back for the unit without encountering the same bug. Are you inventing some reality where I've said the Uhu is unusable now?
You know it still has a beam, right? Its just that it gives regular, blockable vision, rather than the maphack pizza slice it once did?
A sight ability that ignores LOS blockers and isn't a flare or a plane is actual map hack.
You're not getting that.
You already have a FUCKING PLANE on the unit AS WELL AS long range detection on minimap.
I don't know what you don't understand here.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
4 Mar 2021, 16:13 PM
#14
Posts: 1594
A sight ability that ignores LOS blockers and isn't a flare or a plane is actual map hack.
You're not getting that.
You're making semantic arguments that aren't meaningful, there's nothing to "get".
You already have a FUCKING PLANE on the unit AS WELL AS long range detection on minimap.
I don't know what you don't understand here.
Again, why are you insisting I'm suggesting this be added? I do not think such an ability should be placed on the unit, nor is it needed. The Uhu is fine, particularly with the new scout plane. Stop manufacturing a reality where I think the Uhu is in need of a new ability.
What I stated was that there would be no other way for the UHU's ability to see past sight blockers with its IR beam to return except through providing unobstructed vision, rather than the old "units are here" detection beam, due to the bug associated with the old ability. There was 0 mention of it being a change that should happen, nor that it would be a balanced ability.
This was a hypothetical post and I have ABSOLUTELY no clue why you're getting so bent out of shape about it.
4 Mar 2021, 16:30 PM
#15
Posts: 13477 | Subs: 1
IRHT is currently not worth it.
I like sneakeye implementation better.
I like sneakeye implementation better.
4 Mar 2021, 17:31 PM
#16
Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2
...
Albeit what you are asking for is also probable bugged in simil fashion.
IIRC vet 5 Puma used to have what you are asking for. Now it's just minimap information.
My controls weren't working
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
4 Mar 2021, 17:42 PM
#17
Posts: 1594
Albeit what you are asking for is also probable bugged in simil fashion.
IIRC vet 5 Puma used to have what you are asking for. Now it's just minimap information.
Really? That's strange, I always assumed that the bug was related to the "detection" mechanic specifically, or some interaction with the way the Uhu's vision cone moves seperately to the unit. Maybe it's something to do with ignoring sightblocker checks instead, then? Planes must use a different mechanism, as they ignore sightblockers but don't cause the bug (to my knowledge).
I'd never really thought to ask, but was the Uhu bug specific to the Uhu, or can/does it occur on other units with "detection" (In fact, thinking about it, other Detection abilities don't quite have the same effect as the Uhu's did, do they?)
God knows why Lelic thought it'd be a good idea to let the Puma of all things see through sightblockers, though I wasn't aware it ever had an ability like that. Even if it wasnt bugged, an ability like that on the Puma would be far too strong, I think.
4 Mar 2021, 17:44 PM
#18
Posts: 498
For those who still don't get what Pip is suggesting:
(credits to Olekman)
Could work as a replacement for both recon plane and minimap detection, with a muni cost and limited duration ofc. After all the new recon plane allows 3 doctrines to esentially call artillery anywhere on the map (Breakthrough, Feuerstrum and Scavenge) so it is a serious balance consideration of which one is better.
(credits to Olekman)
Could work as a replacement for both recon plane and minimap detection, with a muni cost and limited duration ofc. After all the new recon plane allows 3 doctrines to esentially call artillery anywhere on the map (Breakthrough, Feuerstrum and Scavenge) so it is a serious balance consideration of which one is better.
4 Mar 2021, 17:55 PM
#19
Posts: 1594
For those who still don't get what Pip is suggesting:
(credits to Olekman)
Could work as a replacement for both recon plane and minimap detection, with a muni cost and limited duration ofc. After all the new recon plane allows 3 doctrines to esentially call artillery anywhere on the map (Breakthrough, Feuerstrum and Scavenge) so it is a serious balance consideration which is better.
Near enough, yeah. I envisioned it following the searchlight cone, though.
If I'm honest, I thought the original post was pretty clear, and also clear that it was a theoretical, and not something that needs to be added. Fair point that the Recon plane is indeed stronger in some circumstances, by the way (Assuming there isnt AA on the enemy team, or at least that it is extremely lucky).
4 Mar 2021, 19:22 PM
#20
Posts: 1563
Near enough, yeah. I envisioned it following the searchlight cone, though.
If I'm honest, I thought the original post was pretty clear, and also clear that it was a theoretical, and not something that needs to be added. Fair point that the Recon plane is indeed stronger in some circumstances, by the way (Assuming there isnt AA on the enemy team, or at least that it is extremely lucky).
My original post is theoretical.
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