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Smartie's commander reworks: OKW

17 Jan 2021, 15:15 PM
#41
avatar of Olfin

Posts: 167

jump backJump back to quoted post17 Jan 2021, 13:39 PMPip


There's no reason they couldn't be, I don't think. I don't think there's anything limiting how much one commander "slot" can give you.

Yes you are right, I don't see any reason too.
17 Jan 2021, 15:21 PM
#42
avatar of Lady Xenarra

Posts: 745


The received accuracy bonus and smoke grenade make them good enough as CQC imo. I do think the HE grenade is honestly worse though, I would rather they had the flame grenade

In fairness, the HE nade is much better for clearing weapon teams in light cover and forcing ppl in green cover to either eat it or move away only to be SMG'd. Pretty nasty outcomes. Worse against garrisoned infantry of course. Prob comes down to personal choice.
17 Jan 2021, 16:33 PM
#43
avatar of berkeley

Posts: 23

for me, only good thing in Luftwaffe is Heavy Fortification, rest are trash :D
18 Jan 2021, 14:01 PM
#45
avatar of Tetranet

Posts: 195

jump backJump back to quoted post17 Jan 2021, 05:38 AMOlfin



I thought that both Ostwind and AA flak emplacement could be merged in one ability/slot like Heavy Air defences for example, but if this is impossible then yes Ostwind is a better trade.



I think so too, it would be good if it could be done this way, otherwise I'd like to see Luftwaffe Ground Forces keeping their defensive utility and have the tasteless Valiant Assault Infantry buff replaced with an Ostwind (this would solve the excessively good synergy of VA and Falls too).
23 Jan 2021, 10:49 AM
#46
avatar of Smartie

Posts: 834 | Subs: 1

My 2 cent about Overwatch:
I would prefer to move the tweaked version of "Defense of the fatherland" to "Fortress" and seperate "Overwatch flares" and "Goliath" again. Overwatch would have 1 ability less then in the live version but that could be compensated with the old "Overwatch flares" - the flares are automatically set up on capping points.
23 Jan 2021, 12:46 PM
#47
avatar of WAAAGH2000

Posts: 678

Some ideas
Heavy Fortification---Rework,to 0cp,Volks can build S-mine,SP can build teller mine
Field Defenses---to 2CP,have tanktrap,wine,and bunker,bunker can upgrade same as OST
Ostwind and flak38 be one ability,flak38 remove crew HP
IRStg merge with Volks MP40,to 0cp,rename Infantry Assault package
StormTiger-- s-mine launcher be default weapon,not ability,lock out Kingtiger
Flamethrower-- remove from assault package,merge with IG18 special ammunition
23 Jan 2021, 17:53 PM
#48
avatar of JPA32

Posts: 178

jump backJump back to quoted post23 Jan 2021, 10:49 AMSmartie
My 2 cent about Overwatch:
I would prefer to move the tweaked version of "Defense of the fatherland" to "Fortress" and seperate "Overwatch flares" and "Goliath" again. Overwatch would have 1 ability less then in the live version but that could be compensated with the old "Overwatch flares" - the flares are automatically set up on capping points.


Old overwatch flares were the worst since they were just free frontline vision and information for the OKW player at no cost or thought.

Right now they're jank because you have to expend both micro tax and time to plant the flares and since you can't shift queue them up you have to babysit your units to plant the flares. I'd just say allow the flares to be planted on neutral/enemy points, increase the build time but only detonate them if a point you own is being captured. This keeps the micro flow alive, has a risk reward element to planting them on frontline points if you're attacked and provides a time tax so that you only plant them on relevant points (similar to how mainline sandbags have been changed but not as drastic time-wise.)

That's assuming that's even possible. You might not be able to interact with neutral/enemy points I don't know.
23 Jan 2021, 17:59 PM
#49
avatar of Smartie

Posts: 834 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post23 Jan 2021, 17:53 PMJPA32


Old overwatch flares were the worst since they were just free frontline vision and information for the OKW player at no cost or thought.

I'd just say allow the flares to be planted on neutral/enemy points, increase the build time...


Increasing the build time is a good idea.
23 Jan 2021, 20:41 PM
#50
avatar of SkysTheLimit

Posts: 3200 | Subs: 1


In fairness, the HE nade is much better for clearing weapon teams in light cover and forcing ppl in green cover to either eat it or move away only to be SMG'd.

Feel like the flame nade does that too but it retains the anti-garrison ability. Probably just my preference though
9 Mar 2021, 18:38 PM
#51
avatar of ltaustinpowers

Posts: 68 | Subs: 1

I was going to put this in Vipper's thread but then found the link to this one. I think a lot of people are suggesting good ideas but I still feel like Scavenge could use a little bit of love.

The Commander is named after the scavenge ability but especially in team games, wrecks are typically destroyed before you can salvage them. The exception might be early game before heavy artillery starts hitting the field or tanks are able to run over the wrecks of vehicles that they just destroyed, meaning you can salvage dead: bren carriers, kubelwagens, scout cars, etc.

I think Through Salvage should either be merged with the Incendiary Munitions from Feuersturm (the extra salvage allows for Le. IG 18s to use incendiary rounds [might be a good time to buff the incendiary rounds a bit as well]) or...

perhaps combining Through Salvage with the Ostwind unlock (both 0cp) allowing for an additional commander ability. If the sturmpioniers are better trained at salvaging, perhaps the tank crews would have better training as well. Add the Emergency Repairs ability from Elite Armored.
9 Mar 2021, 23:04 PM
#52
avatar of WAAAGH2000

Posts: 678

I still not understand why not change IRstg ober be call-in special unit or bundle with some other passive ability,3cp for infantry weapon upgrade still joke
9 Mar 2021, 23:10 PM
#53
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17536 | Subs: 8

I still not understand why not change IRstg ober be call-in special unit or bundle with some other passive ability,3cp for infantry weapon upgrade still joke

Yeah, who in his right mind would put a weapon upgrade granting up to 44 DPS at the same CP as one with up to 8,7 DPS.
It should be 4 or 5 for that potency.
10 Mar 2021, 04:41 AM
#54
avatar of WAAAGH2000

Posts: 678


Yeah, who in his right mind would put a weapon upgrade granting up to 44 DPS at the same CP as one with up to 8,7 DPS.
It should be 4 or 5 for that potency.

Oh yes,IRstg very strong on paper
10 Mar 2021, 07:45 AM
#55
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17536 | Subs: 8


Oh yes,IRstg very strong on paper

Very strong in game too, it ignores cover partially as well, so you'll pretty much always win cover to cover engagements. Also, how do you play, if you have schwerer up, but not 3CP yet?
10 Mar 2021, 08:13 AM
#56
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 12186 | Subs: 1

We have been here before so I am not sure why we have to do it again.

obers vs LMG obers against heavy cover:

Ranges 0/10/15/20/25/30/35

23.8/20.7/13.8/11.0/9.0/7.0/5.2
8.1/7.7/7.5/7.3/7.2/6.9/6.5

Even vs heavy cover LMG obers are superior at range 35 and one needs to close bellow range 20 to get real advantage.

The lower cover penalties of Vamp ST44 in not it main selling point.
10 Mar 2021, 09:33 AM
#57
avatar of WAAAGH2000

Posts: 678

jump backJump back to quoted post10 Mar 2021, 07:45 AMKatitof

Very strong in game too, it ignores cover partially as well, so you'll pretty much always win cover to cover engagements. Also, how do you play, if you have schwerer up, but not 3CP yet?

Not truly ignore cover,and just use CCM to test ober upgrade irstg and lmg34,whatever in cover or not,more than 15m IRstg squad will worse than LMG34 squad,if ober not have any upgrade or LMG34 is commander ability this could be a normal ability,or IRstg could upgrade for volks like 80 ammo for 1 also could work,or just make IRstg squad be single special call-in unit with some different ability also could work,even just increase 15 sight or some RA buff still have reason to upgrade
10 Mar 2021, 10:15 AM
#58
avatar of Sander93

Posts: 3108 | Subs: 7

jump backJump back to quoted post10 Mar 2021, 08:13 AMVipper
We have been here before so I am not sure why we have to do it again.

obers vs LMG obers against heavy cover:

Ranges 0/10/15/20/25/30/35

23.8/20.7/13.8/11.0/9.0/7.0/5.2
8.1/7.7/7.5/7.3/7.2/6.9/6.5

Even vs heavy cover LMG obers are superior at range 35 and one needs to close bellow range 20 to get real advantage.

The lower cover penalties of Vamp ST44 in not it main selling point.


What I see here is a weapon that is more versatile than the LMG because it's better at every range except 35 in the mid to late game when there's cover everywhere. But fights rarely happen at exactly 35 range. And the IR STGs are significantly better on the move and to wipe units, and their close to mid range DPS blows the LMG out of the water. It's a great upgrade, easily worth the ability slot, and definitely does not need any sort of buff.

10 Mar 2021, 10:20 AM
#59
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 12186 | Subs: 1


What I see here is a weapon that is more versatile than the LMG because it's better at every range except 35. But fights rarely happen at exactly 35 range. And the IR STGs are significantly better on the move and to wipe units, and their close to mid range DPS blows the LMG out of the water. It's a great upgrade and easily worth the ability slot.

Point I was making was that it not that much better vs cover unless you close in to grenade range and at this point one can simply move to point blank range.

( This is typical where anything "unique" available to Axis is blow up of proportion and presented as super effective. Same goes for G43 moving accuracy on grenadiers.)

As for design I would rather replace the weapon a 5 men ober unit with less DPS and vet bonus designed for such a unit.

As for the weapon slot rather situational, since one usually builds 1-2 obers per game, so I wouldn't say easily.

10 Mar 2021, 10:22 AM
#60
avatar of Sander93

Posts: 3108 | Subs: 7

jump backJump back to quoted post10 Mar 2021, 10:20 AMVipper
As for design I would rather replace the weapon a 5 men ober unit with less DPS and vet bonus designed for such a unit.


How is their current vet not already perfectly designed for a brute force AI unit? They get all the combat bonuses they could ever wish for, and they get the strongest variants (+40% acc, -25% cooldown, -29% RA). They even get four incredibly useful abilities with vet.

Their 4 men durability is the only thing that keeps this upgrade balanced, removing that would be a mistake.
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