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Smartie's commander reworks: USF

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17 Jan 2021, 08:10 AM
#41
avatar of Smartie

Posts: 856 | Subs: 2



I agree with your opinion. However, these adjustments require some work.The cav rifle is basically armed with an m3 grease gun. I think their armament needs to be adjusted to m1 carbine. Are you thinking of the idea that the Ranger can help with the lack of anti-infantry capabilities to the rifle company? If so, I agree. Your opinion.
And for Heavy cavarly, I thought the Cav Rifle was pretty much needed.


I've thought the Cav Rifles are thematically a slam dunk for Heavy Cav. They would also help to make the doctrine stronger in the early game. Rangers come very late. But CAv Rifles + off map smoke can make some noise.
I also don't like the fact that Heavy Cav combines the only heavy tank for US with an elite infantry unit. Pershing with a minor buff + CAv Rifles will already be a strong combo.

And "combined arms" could use some tweaks. Its barely used probably because of the high munition cost. Maybe lowering the cost (and the performance) would help.
17 Jan 2021, 09:08 AM
#42
avatar of Sander93

Posts: 3166 | Subs: 6

Compared to the other premium mediums, it stats up very favorably


The problem with all USF Shermans is that they have to compete with the very (cost) effective stock HE Sherman and Jackson. All the special variants are good on their own, but there's little reason to pick them over these two, outside of personal preference. Why take a risk with a brawler tank when a Jackson can safely snipe away from 60 range. It's not like USF desperately needs AI either with the excellent scaling of double BAR Rifles. At least the 76mm is seeing a bit more use lately.
17 Jan 2021, 09:27 AM
#43
avatar of Smartie

Posts: 856 | Subs: 2



The problem with all USF Shermans is that they have to compete with the very (cost) effective stock HE Sherman and Jackson. All the special variants are good on their own, but there's little reason to pick them over these two, outside of personal preference.


Agreed on this! That's why you and the team should break new ground with the E8 to make it distinctive.
Just to throw out an idea:
Redesign the E8 to a Commando Tank. Your modteam member Stark suggested this in the "new US commander" thread 2 ago and I think the idea is worth a discussion.

E8 Command Tank would give you a lot of options to design a really outstanding Sherman.
17 Jan 2021, 09:30 AM
#44
avatar of IntoTheRain

Posts: 179



The problem with all USF Shermans is that they have to compete with the very (cost) effective stock HE Sherman and Jackson. All the special variants are good on their own, but there's little reason to pick them over these two, outside of personal preference. Why take a risk with a brawler tank when a Jackson can safely snipe away from 60 range. It's not like USF desperately needs AI either with the excellent scaling of double BAR Rifles. At least the 76mm is seeing a bit more use lately.


As individually powerful as the HE Sherman and Jackson can be, flexibility does have its place. If the enemy isn't going higher than Medium Tanks (like in a lot of 1v1s) then the E8 can comfortable outduel the P4s, be more resilient to AT fire, and retain enough threat against infantry to consistently force them off points. Backed by the aforementioned lategame Riflemen, stronger AT options (76, E8) that can still force off infantry (unlike the Jackson) do at least make some sense.

I really think the doctrine lets this unit down more than anything else, and hope it gets reworked in the next patch. (And in a perfect world 1-2 new doctrines for USF / OKW / Brits as well, too many of their units are locked in single docs that only work well in 1v1 or team games.)
17 Jan 2021, 12:40 PM
#45
avatar of SpadeAce999

Posts: 44

jump backJump back to quoted post17 Jan 2021, 09:27 AMSmartie


Agreed on this! That's why you and the team should break new ground with the E8 to make it distinctive.
Just to throw out an idea:
Redesign the E8 to a Commando Tank. Your modteam member Stark suggested this in the "new US commander" thread 2 ago and I think the idea is worth a discussion.

E8 Command Tank would give you a lot of options to design a really outstanding Sherman.


The ez8 command tank doesn't seem to be a very good idea. Rather, I think the role as a main tank is better as it is now. Like the 76mm Sherman of the Mechanized Company, if you think of the ez8 as a tank that came out as an MBT, I don't think it needs more than a performance buff. What the rifle company needs is an MBT, not a command tank.
17 Jan 2021, 12:44 PM
#46
avatar of SpadeAce999

Posts: 44

jump backJump back to quoted post17 Jan 2021, 08:10 AMSmartie


I've thought the Cav Rifles are thematically a slam dunk for Heavy Cav. They would also help to make the doctrine stronger in the early game. Rangers come very late. But CAv Rifles + off map smoke can make some noise.
I also don't like the fact that Heavy Cav combines the only heavy tank for US with an elite infantry unit. Pershing with a minor buff + CAv Rifles will already be a strong combo.

And "combined arms" could use some tweaks. Its barely used probably because of the high munition cost. Maybe lowering the cost (and the performance) would help.


If a Cav Rifle in Heavy Cavalry goes in place of Ranger, I think the Smoke skill should be replaced.
It is a subjective idea, but I think the M5 half-track vehicle is appropriate as an alternative skill.
If m5 is included in that way, I think there is a possibility that the lt tech will be used more in Heavy Cavalry's team game.
17 Jan 2021, 13:08 PM
#47
avatar of Tygrys

Posts: 103

jump backJump back to quoted post17 Jan 2021, 08:10 AMVipper

According to the stats, check post 35


And yet people aren't using them. Funny how it's not just about stats, right?
17 Jan 2021, 13:20 PM
#48
avatar of Smartie

Posts: 856 | Subs: 2



If a Cav Rifle in Heavy Cavalry goes in place of Ranger, I think the Smoke skill should be replaced.
It is a subjective idea, but I think the M5 half-track vehicle is appropriate as an alternative skill.
If m5 is included in that way, I think there is a possibility that the lt tech will be used more in Heavy Cavalry's team game.


I like the idea! M5 would fit well to the theme. Offmap smoke is maybe not needed anymore after the patch when mortars can significantly shoot faster smoke.
17 Jan 2021, 13:29 PM
#49
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post17 Jan 2021, 13:08 PMTygrys


And yet people aren't using them. Funny how it's not just about stats, right?

People are not using the commander, not the unit. And when it comes to units it about that stats.
17 Jan 2021, 13:35 PM
#50
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1

When it comes to USF commander revamp on has to start with reducing the power of mechanized commander. The number of abilities/units this commander get is simply silly.

The power level of the commander is simply superior to that of other commanders.
17 Jan 2021, 13:49 PM
#51
avatar of SkysTheLimit

Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post17 Jan 2021, 13:35 PMVipper
When it comes to USF commander revamp on has to start with reducing the power of mechanized commander. The number of abilities/units this commander get is simply silly.

The power level of the commander is simply superior to that of other commanders.

They already have started doing that, the wc51 has nerfs in the patch. Which abilities are you going to remove then
17 Jan 2021, 14:13 PM
#52
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1


They already have started doing that, the wc51 has nerfs in the patch. Which abilities are you going to remove then

I am not going to remove any abilities since it not my job to remove things.

On the other hand the commander comes with:
Cav riflemen
WC51
M3
76mm Sherman
M21
75mm dozer upgrade
Combined arm

That 4 doctrinal vehicles, 1 doctrinal infatry, 1 doctrinal upgrade (that is superior to Dozer), 1 ability (+2 two more including an off map via a vehicle).
17 Jan 2021, 14:35 PM
#53
avatar of SkysTheLimit

Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post17 Jan 2021, 14:13 PMVipper

I am not going to remove any abilities since it not my job to remove things.

You know damn well what I'm asking, but go ahead and be a troll

If you say it has too many abilities/units, there's a pretty obvious follow-up question. If you can't answer that's okay
17 Jan 2021, 14:59 PM
#56
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1


Not really. I asked you a simple question

Which abilities/units should be removed from mechanized? You claim there are too many

As I said I am really interested in your flame wars.

Mechanized has more abilities than most other commanders and that is simple fact not a claim.
17 Jan 2021, 15:01 PM
#57
avatar of SkysTheLimit

Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post17 Jan 2021, 14:59 PMVipper

As I said I am really interested in your flame wars.

No one is flaming you
jump backJump back to quoted post17 Jan 2021, 14:59 PMVipper

Mechanized has more abilities than most other commanders and that is simple fact not a claim.

I agree with you. Which do you want to remove
17 Jan 2021, 15:02 PM
#58
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1


No one is flaming you

Which do you want to remove

I would rather have the commander redesigned.
Pip
17 Jan 2021, 15:16 PM
#59
avatar of Pip

Posts: 1594

jump backJump back to quoted post17 Jan 2021, 15:02 PMVipper

I would rather have the commander redesigned.


Then provide an example of how it might be redesigned.
17 Jan 2021, 15:31 PM
#60
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post17 Jan 2021, 15:16 PMPip


Then provide an example of how it might be redesigned.

I have many times.

It involves getting "withdraw and refit" back (in redesigned form) and designed the commander around heavy LV play.
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