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Remove counter-barrage.

15 Jan 2021, 19:56 PM
#61
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 5279

Counter barrage requires vet 1
If someone in your allies team doesn´t pick recon plus arty and axis has lefh then your team made a bad commander decision

Also you can be sure axis has lefh like brits go emplacements

There's no need for counter barrage because if the axis team doesn't pick recon plus off map and the enemy has arty then they made a bad commander decision.

For perspective the ml-20 vet 1 is 1 extra shell
The lefh vet 1 is to, without a lick of micro, counter every single indirect option the enemy has.
15 Jan 2021, 19:59 PM
#62
avatar of BetterDead ThanRed

Posts: 216

SupremeStefan

Axis has access to 1 long range artillery, its static.

Allies has access to 4 long range artillery, 2 are mobile, 2 are static.

if axis had access to an SPG, i would agree, but the burden falls on the single option there is.
plus if CB is removed, priest and sextons would be at the top of the food chain, bar none
15 Jan 2021, 20:37 PM
#63
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 4474


There's no need for counter barrage because if the axis team doesn't pick recon plus off map and the enemy has arty then they made a bad commander decision.

For perspective the ml-20 vet 1 is 1 extra shell
The lefh vet 1 is to, without a lick of micro, counter every single indirect option the enemy has.
>counters

oh no , if only they had wheels to move after a barrage
15 Jan 2021, 20:46 PM
#64
avatar of Lady Xenarra

Posts: 885

I'll sum up my thoughts on the current status of this thread as "I can't hear you over the raining shells landing on my HQ trucks one inch outside base sector in Hill 400. LEFH doesn't exist!" :S
15 Jan 2021, 20:54 PM
#65
avatar of SkysTheLimit

Posts: 3381 | Subs: 1

>counters

oh no , if only they had wheels to move after a barrage

So in your opinion counter barrage should only work against mobile arty?

Imo CB is fine, but that's not a good argument
15 Jan 2021, 21:32 PM
#66
avatar of TheMux2

Posts: 139

hahahahahaahaha this forum is a joke, i posted about this months ago. i was then told to "l2p" and "it isnt a issue" just because something has a counter doesnt mean it isnt broken.

the problem with this ability that its low risk high reward, you just toggle a ability and you dont have to look at it anymore. it has no place in a rts.
15 Jan 2021, 21:45 PM
#67
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 4474


So in your opinion counter barrage should only work against mobile arty?

Imo CB is fine, but that's not a good argument
it really isn't a counter for mobile art , more like a nusiance ,that's what i mean certeneally not a counter to everything that is indirect
15 Jan 2021, 22:12 PM
#68
avatar of Grim

Posts: 1043

Never thought there would be people defending counter barrage.

Besides the usual suspects lol.
15 Jan 2021, 22:14 PM
#69
avatar of BetterDead ThanRed

Posts: 216

i insist on that CB (until something of similar value is presented) is extremely valuable to axis, and is almost essential in some cases.

But so far i see few good suggestions of what to replace it with.

But i have these suggestions at the top of my head:

1. CB ''locks'' onto target as it currently is, but needs player input to actually engage/fire. basicly just clicking ''fire''

2. have a toggle on what range to CB on, close or far, with cooldown between them, will only CB within that zone until told otherwise, meaning a close enemy mortar would be safe ATM, when toggled to ''far mode'' and reverse.

3. have a toggle on what target CB to prioritize, light, medium or heavy artillery, with cooldown toggle
15 Jan 2021, 22:41 PM
#70
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 5279

>counters

oh no , if only they had wheels to move after a barrage

Well. It'll ohk a Katy, nuke a ml120 and a b4, the land mattress doesn't have the speed...
It procs on zis, su76 and Scott barrages, as well as mortar barrages.

But yea, the priest and sexton can wheel away mid barrage so it's all good right?
15 Jan 2021, 23:04 PM
#71
avatar of SupremeStefan

Posts: 1201

SupremeStefan

Axis has access to 1 long range artillery, its static.

Allies has access to 4 long range artillery, 2 are mobile, 2 are static.

if axis had access to an SPG, i would agree, but the burden falls on the single option there is.
plus if CB is removed, priest and sextons would be at the top of the food chain, bar none

I really dont understand why people suggest CB must exist because priest something something.
Removing this ability will only force people to minimal micro input that's it.

I can understand that priest or even sexton are strong but that doesn't mean axis can be braindead comon guys.

If u really want to kill some sextons then just flank and kill it like rocket arty its really isnt that big difference.


15 Jan 2021, 23:09 PM
#72
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 5279

i insist on that CB (until something of similar value is presented) is extremely valuable to axis, and is almost essential in some cases.

But so far i see few good suggestions of what to replace it with.

But i have these suggestions at the top of my head:

1. CB ''locks'' onto target as it currently is, but needs player input to actually engage/fire. basicly just clicking ''fire''

2. have a toggle on what range to CB on, close or far, with cooldown between them, will only CB within that zone until told otherwise, meaning a close enemy mortar would be safe ATM, when toggled to ''far mode'' and reverse.

3. have a toggle on what target CB to prioritize, light, medium or heavy artillery, with cooldown toggle

Simply make it not auto rotate. Then you have to find the enemy arty and set for a counter.
It can counter an AREA and that would be fine. Countering each and every single piece of indirect on the entire map without so much as a look at the unit once toggling it on is what makes it OP.

The slightest amount of thought being put into using it would help balance it.
15 Jan 2021, 23:37 PM
#73
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13148 | Subs: 1


I really dont understand why people suggest CB must exist because priest something something.
Removing this ability will only force people to minimal micro input that's it.

I can understand that priest or even sexton are strong but that doesn't mean axis can be braindead comon guys.

If u really want to kill some sextons then just flank and kill it like rocket arty its really isnt that big difference.



The fact that rocket artillery die to LV is not a "big difference" in you opinion?

or

The fact that sexton and Priest have longer range and need 2 hit instead of 1 is not a "big difference" either?
16 Jan 2021, 00:48 AM
#74
avatar of Lady Xenarra

Posts: 885


I really dont understand why people suggest CB must exist because priest something something.
Removing this ability will only force people to minimal micro input that's it.

I can understand that priest or even sexton are strong but that doesn't mean axis can be braindead comon guys.

If u really want to kill some sextons then just flank and kill it like rocket arty its really isnt that big difference.



Kinda hard to dive through all that tac map viewing, situational awareness, intercepting units, mines they keep laying around, half the army withdrawing just to stop you.....I would consider in 4v4 the trade of 1 auf J/pz iv typical for one spg or vice versa for allied meds vs a stuka/pzwerfer. If they're sleeping at the wheel you can get 2 or even 3 or 4, but that's low ranks for you.

3v3 is better but SPGs don't feature as much there.

If I were to do this more reliably, I'd have to pull some doc specifics like Flares and Invisible Tanks.
16 Jan 2021, 00:51 AM
#75
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 4474


Well. It'll ohk a Katy, nuke a ml120 and a b4, the land mattress doesn't have the speed...
It procs on zis, su76 and Scott barrages, as well as mortar barrages.

But yea, the priest and sexton can wheel away mid barrage so it's all good right?
u can still get away even with those as it's not instant, tho i would agree that it needs some more micro, maybe designate an area or an angle of 45° that only works for counter barrage ?
16 Jan 2021, 01:00 AM
#76
avatar of TheMux2

Posts: 139

u can still get away even with those as it's not instant, tho i would agree that it needs some more micro, maybe designate an area or an angle of 45° that only works for counter barrage ?


that + make it so it isnt just a toggle but that u have to activate it
16 Jan 2021, 01:12 AM
#77
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 4474

jump backJump back to quoted post16 Jan 2021, 01:00 AMTheMux2


that + make it so it isnt just a toggle but that u have to activate it
well either or, if u do both it would be pretty useless
16 Jan 2021, 04:25 AM
#78
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 5279

u can still get away even with those as it's not instant, tho i would agree that it needs some more micro, maybe designate an area or an angle of 45° that only works for counter barrage ?

I would take LITERALLY anything. The issue is the ability to 100% shut down anything that shoots in an arc with no effort at all.
MMX
16 Jan 2021, 06:47 AM
#79
avatar of MMX

Posts: 999 | Subs: 1

i'd probably just make it an active ability that has a set duration of, say, 90 sec during which it will auto-attack once just as it does now and slap a munitions cost to it (maybe 30 to 50 mu). after firing or the end of the ability's timer, it goes back into the usual cooldown.
et voilà, cb now requires a bit more thought and player input and has some economic penalty adequate to its strength.
16 Jan 2021, 08:50 AM
#80
avatar of SupremeStefan

Posts: 1201

jump backJump back to quoted post15 Jan 2021, 23:37 PMVipper

The fact that sexton and Priest have longer range and need 2 hit instead of 1 is not a "big difference" either

In other words if you hug priest u will kill it.

But if you really think CB is so much needed because priest flank is hard then pls i want anti heavy tank destroyers overwatch in priest
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