It actually has same 720 hp as brumm and recieves extra hp with veterancy.
To be accurate, it is actually 800/720 HP at vet 0 but the result vs atgs and dozer can take an extra hit once vetted.
[Winter Balance Update] OST Feedback
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9 Jan 2021, 14:45 PM
#581
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
To be accurate, it is actually 800/720 HP at vet 0 but the result vs atgs and dozer can take an extra hit once vetted.
9 Jan 2021, 14:52 PM
#582
Posts: 177
To be accurate, it is actually 800/720 HP at vet 0 but the result vs atgs and dozer can take an extra hit once vetted.
damm. I think I was confuse about Bulldozer and 105mm sherman......
sorry
9 Jan 2021, 15:04 PM
#583
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
damm. I think I was confuse about Bulldozer and 105mm sherman......
sorry
Dozer upgrade 75mm Sherman has 215/105 armor and 720 hp
Dozer 105mm Sheman has 200/80 armor 720 hp
So generally 75mm is a bettet tank...
No need to apologize we all get confused some times.
9 Jan 2021, 16:34 PM
#584
Posts: 290
I find it really strange that Pgrens don't get a nerf besides grenade cooldown at vet 3. Everyone can see that they overperform. Their overpowered bundlenade (for only 35 lmao) combined with their dps will almost guaranteed wipe an allied squad. The allied player cant do anything to counter that. even fullhealth retreat squads get wiped if you can time the grenade a little bit.
definitely a too strong combination and should definitely be looked at.
Allies already have better wiping potential with their grenades and PG's get wiped as badly from allied grenade too as they are only 4 man squad. It's all about learning to dodge grenades that every single axis faction player has to learn to get better at the game with allies being able to constantly barrage them with grenades.
9 Jan 2021, 16:46 PM
#585
Posts: 290
Comet can't 1vs1 panther that is it weakpoint. go try it
ISU-152 is Doctrinal and have very bad maneuverability / slow fire rate. need a lot of support unit behind them or it get flanked and gone.
Comet can 1vs1 Panther it's just a big rng festival that fight. Main thing that make the most difference in a game is that Panther can't do diddly shit against infantry/support weapons while Comet wrecks those too.
9 Jan 2021, 16:48 PM
#586
Posts: 3113 | Subs: 2
Allies already have better wiping potential with their grenades and PG's get wiped as badly from allied grenade too as they are only 4 man squad. It's all about learning to dodge grenades that every single axis faction player has to learn to get better at the game with allies being able to constantly barrage them with grenades.
I think PGrens are a different issue, in live they come to the field at a time where only UKF can field a proper counter with the MG, viable Soviet and USF builds are 2-3 min away from getting counters.
PGrens (also Obers) have the additional benefit that they are extremely good at chasing, something only barred up Riflemen can do to a similar extend. Soviets do not get similar infantry at all, while USF need to rely on Paras/Rangers and UKF usually on commandos for something similar, although also Commandos have a steep DPS drop.
9 Jan 2021, 16:52 PM
#587
Posts: 290
I think PGrens are a different issue, in live they come to the field at a time where only UKF can field a proper counter with the MG, viable Soviet and USF builds are 2-3 min away from getting counters.
PGrens (also Obers) have the additional benefit that they are extremely good at chasing, something only barred up Riflemen can do to a similar extend. Soviets do not get similar infantry at all, while USF need to rely on Paras/Rangers and UKF usually on commandos for something similar, although also Commandos have a steep DPS drop.
Unupgraded Penals can chase as well and kill units on retreat. There is not much difference as killing retreating units is so depending on situations. Of course bundle grenade has the potential that some others don't, but I have got units wiped by commando grenades, satchels, normal grenades on retreat. Those kind of unit wipes depend on player skill and good timing nothing to do with is it too powerful.
9 Jan 2021, 17:00 PM
#588
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
I think PGrens are a different issue, in live they come to the field at a time where only UKF can field a proper counter with the MG, viable Soviet and USF builds are 2-3 min away from getting counters.
PGrens (also Obers) have the additional benefit that they are extremely good at chasing, something only barred up Riflemen can do to a similar extend. Soviets do not get similar infantry at all, while USF need to rely on Paras/Rangers and UKF usually on commandos for something similar, although also Commandos have a steep DPS drop.
I do not really see how PG are "extremely" good at chasing and that much better than Soviet infatry.
DPS on the move 10/20/35:
Penal 14.3/10.5/6.3
Pg 24.3/12.86/4.2
They get really good at chasing with G43s.
LMG Airborne guards on the move get:
14//13.2/12.7 !
9 Jan 2021, 17:13 PM
#589
Posts: 290
I do not really see how PG are "extremely" good at chasing and that much better than Soviet infatry.
DPS on the move 10/20/35:
Penal 14.3/10.5/6.3
Pg 24.3/12.86/4.2
They get really good at chasing with G43s.
LMG Airborne guards on the move get:
14//13.2/12.7 !
Oh damn, that Airborne commander is super strong. Already cheap ass conscripts with SVT's are such a different beast to fight against.
9 Jan 2021, 17:14 PM
#590
Posts: 1273
Unupgraded Penals can chase as well and kill units on retreat. There is not much difference as killing retreating units is so depending on situations. Of course bundle grenade has the potential that some others don't, but I have got units wiped by commando grenades, satchels, normal grenades on retreat. Those kind of unit wipes depend on player skill and good timing nothing to do with is it too powerful.
It also depends on maps, but with a bit of experience and skill, you get to know the retreat path of hotspots really well, and you can anticipate where to put the PG and/or use the nade to get as many retreat wipes as possible. Hannibal is right, PGrens are extremely good at chasing and retreat kills. Retreat kills also work well with the rest of the OST lineup, it's not just a matter of raw stats. Commandos are deadlier for retreat wipes tho, but UKF tends to use them less.
9 Jan 2021, 17:17 PM
#591
Posts: 1289
Allies already have better wiping potential with their grenades and PG's get wiped as badly from allied grenade too as they are only 4 man squad. It's all about learning to dodge grenades that every single axis faction player has to learn to get better at the game with allies being able to constantly barrage them with grenades.
I rarely see any allied nade wipe an axis squad esp from full health. They are easier to dodge doing little to no damage.
Their aoe is smaller and thus less leathal
Bundles do this more often dodging or not, the big aoe makes sure you nearly always kill models or do a large chunk of hp damage.
Afiak all bundles are on ai squads who are already quite leathal at mid or long range. Making the bundle even more effective, if you dont outright wipe you have a big chance to get the wipe on retreat.
9 Jan 2021, 17:18 PM
#592
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
Oh damn, that Airborne commander is super strong. Already cheap ass conscripts with SVT's are such a different beast to fight against.
SVt conscripts do not have bad DPS on the move either 10/20/35
12.8/9.7/5.1
9 Jan 2021, 17:23 PM
#593
Posts: 1289
Oh damn, that Airborne commander is super strong. Already cheap ass conscripts with SVT's are such a different beast to fight against.
If svt makes cheap cons over preform, then what does vsl to cheaper grens?
9 Jan 2021, 17:44 PM
#594
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
If svt makes cheap cons over preform, then what does vsl to cheaper grens?
+SVT for cons was already nerfed together with actual crutch of the doctrine its in.
VSL nerf is long overdue. For what the upgrade provides atm, it should be 100 muni one or nerfed as in the preview.
And nerf was the only reasonable option, because you know, otherwise it would only be a power creep.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
9 Jan 2021, 17:55 PM
#595
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
If svt makes cheap cons over preform, then what does vsl to cheaper grens?
Both grenadier and conscripts cost 240 manpower to buy.
SVT conscripts cost 240/60mu at CP 1 and VSL grenadier cots 270/60mu at CP 2.
VSL grenadier are simply not cheaper to buy.
9 Jan 2021, 17:59 PM
#596
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
Both grenadier and conscripts cost 240 manpower to buy.
SVT conscripts cost 240/60mu at CP 1 and VSL grenadier cots 270/60mu at CP 2
One offers a minor increase in firepower.
Other offers increase in firepower, removal of vet ability cost, massive increase in squad durability through additional model and another massive increase in squad durability through rec acc increase.
Yeah, there is clear disparity of benefits for the cost, even considering timing difference, there is nothing at 2CP providing anything comparable to VSL.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
9 Jan 2021, 18:27 PM
#597
Posts: 290
One offers a minor increase in firepower.
Other offers increase in firepower, removal of vet ability cost, massive increase in squad durability through additional model and another massive increase in squad durability through rec acc increase.
Yeah, there is clear disparity of benefits for the cost, even considering timing difference, there is nothing at 2CP providing anything comparable to VSL.
Katitof here to downplay the conscript buff, it's not just minor firepower increase. You can say the same for the VSL ugprade too on the firepower, there is nothing else but 1 g43 added. Yes you are correct in the survivability, but the survivability isn't anything that allied factions don't already have (More models per squad). Received acc bonus is already going away with the patch anyway.
9 Jan 2021, 18:34 PM
#598
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
Katitof here to downplay the conscript buff, it's not just minor firepower increase. You can say the same for the VSL ugprade too on the firepower, there is nothing else but 1 g43 added. Yes you are correct in the survivability, but the survivability isn't anything that allied factions don't already have (More models per squad). Received acc bonus is already going away with the patch anyway.
Let me remind you that SVTs are in line with any other weapon upgrade and cons just lost additional acc at vet3.
Also, survivability is not a forte of ost squads.
An ability that boosts it considerably has a different effect and impact then if it was given to allies who already relay on it deeply.
VSL to grens is what LMGs to penals are - something that doesn't naturally belong to the faction and something with potential to completely break the unit.
VSL is broken upgrade atm and patch is bringing it with line.
Just cope with it.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
9 Jan 2021, 18:40 PM
#599
Posts: 3113 | Subs: 2
snip
snip
The bundle nade is relatively easy to time and does excellent damage. The satchel can work but is way harder to pull of plus you need to be far behind the enemy already due to the long fuse. If you flank from the side and the enemy retreats, you have no chance to throw a satchel in time. Another reason why I value the bundle so much is because it ignores light cover which is plenty in the later stages of the game, whereas you moving DPS gets further diminished.
Penals do have decent damage on the move on the long range, but the PGren advantage between 10-20 is definitely not negligable either. Conscripts though are pretty horrible at wiping, IS are also subpar even after the reworks. It gets a little better when they get their Brens, but then they may not walk, which makes wipes slightly more map dependent if your opponent manages to run around a corner or not.
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