while rocket artillery for most factions involves some level of RNG the stuka zu fuss is an absolutely broken in 3v3-4v4 team games due to its efficiency against weapon teams through what are essentially laser guided bombs... granted its absolute accuracy makes it not as fierce in 1v1 and to an extent 2v2 soo a direct nerf is not a good idea
recommend switching it out for a bog standard aoe circle with aoe and splash adjusted to match the stuka`s performance... reworking it into standard rocket arty piece may be against "flavor" but would be significantly better for balance...
disclaimer: i dont think its OP... just badly designed...
stuka zu fuss needs more RNG in it
9 Nov 2020, 18:20 PM
#1
Posts: 1979
9 Nov 2020, 18:43 PM
#2
Posts: 268
Lost a game before this post, eh?
9 Nov 2020, 18:56 PM
#3
Posts: 17884 | Subs: 8
Lost a game before this post, eh?
Was there ever any other reason for a "balance" thread with no numbers or replays?
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
9 Nov 2020, 19:06 PM
#4
Posts: 101
no
9 Nov 2020, 19:10 PM
#5
Posts: 1979
Lost a game before this post, eh?
you commenting as a 4v4 axis main only further illucidates the point...
9 Nov 2020, 19:15 PM
#6
Posts: 940
*Posts as an OKW main*
It's deadly, it's got a line shaped barrage and seems to hit infantry squads when you're trying to blow up something else....somehow. It punishes weapons team spam brutally and dramatically loses effectiveness against decent players who use combined arms. But as Adamircz said, it can't really be changed without making it awful awful. It's already super difficult to deal with MGs as OKW and it's literally the only thing you have to answer skill howies, before LeFHs.
As an aside, if you think the stuka has obscene accuracy you should see what the skill howie autofire does to weapon teams and even infantry marching in open nvm clumped up....
It's deadly, it's got a line shaped barrage and seems to hit infantry squads when you're trying to blow up something else....somehow. It punishes weapons team spam brutally and dramatically loses effectiveness against decent players who use combined arms. But as Adamircz said, it can't really be changed without making it awful awful. It's already super difficult to deal with MGs as OKW and it's literally the only thing you have to answer skill howies, before LeFHs.
As an aside, if you think the stuka has obscene accuracy you should see what the skill howie autofire does to weapon teams and even infantry marching in open nvm clumped up....
9 Nov 2020, 19:21 PM
#7
Posts: 1979
*Posts as an OKW main*
It's deadly, it's got a line shaped barrage and seems to hit infantry squads when you're trying to blow up something else....somehow. It punishes weapons team spam brutally and dramatically loses effectiveness against decent players who use combined arms. But as Adamircz said, it can't really be changed without making it awful awful. It's already super difficult to deal with MGs as OKW and it's literally the only thing you have to answer skill howies, before LeFHs.
i think reworking it into a bog standard AOE circle should fix the issue... it would become less wipey against someone who can at least micro away from the bombardment as opposed to being the "wipe an MG for free" button it currently is...
As an aside, if you think the stuka has obscene accuracy you should see what the skill howie autofire does to weapon teams and even infantry marching in open nvm clumped up....
yeah pack howies needed a nerf for a long time already... though id say the stuka is more deletey against team weapons since MGs cannot reliably retreat away from them...
9 Nov 2020, 19:22 PM
#8
Posts: 1515
*Posts as an OKW main*
It's deadly, it's got a line shaped barrage and seems to hit infantry squads when you're trying to blow up something else....somehow. It punishes weapons team spam brutally and dramatically loses effectiveness against decent players who use combined arms. But as Adamircz said, it can't really be changed without making it awful awful. It's already super difficult to deal with MGs as OKW and it's literally the only thing you have to answer skill howies, before LeFHs.
As an aside, if you think the stuka has obscene accuracy you should see what the skill howie autofire does to weapon teams and even infantry marching in open nvm clumped up....
Agreed. Stuka is fine as it is. The only problem I have with it is bug related as sometimes the whooshing sound is barely heard. However, multiple systems have that problem. Rifle granade from OST calling out when it's already exploded. Rear echelons yelling "Granade!" when you fire a smoke granade. Often enough the sound cues are non-existing or really low volume. Still, don't know how Stuka can be considered OP
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9 Nov 2020, 19:26 PM
#9
Posts: 1979
Still, don't know how Stuka can be considered OP
i dont think its OP... just badly designed... its terrible against blobs and not that good in 1v1s and to an extent 2v2s... it only becomes a menace in 3v3 and 4v4 (and some 2v2 maps) team games when teamweapon saturation becomes soo high that stukas excel in their role of team weapon deleter...
9 Nov 2020, 19:28 PM
#10
Posts: 268
you commenting as a 4v4 axis main only further illucidates the point...
I was rank 1 in 4v4 with soviets. Whats next?
9 Nov 2020, 19:30 PM
#11
Posts: 1979
I was rank 1 in 4v4 with soviets. Whats next?
the soviets also had some broken shit in the past... the old ISU comes into mind... in any case im not suggesting a stuka nerf... just a rework to even out its role from a specialized tool to a more general purpose one...
9 Nov 2020, 19:42 PM
#12
Posts: 3588 | Subs: 3
no
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9 Nov 2020, 19:46 PM
#13
Posts: 4183 | Subs: 4
I remember when they added scatter to the stuka and it made it twice as OP.
The best rework would for it to launch its rocket in a circle similar to the firestorm barrage. Although I don't know how you'd be able to influence the rocket placement because theirs so few. So unless the AoE was buffed a good margin and the OHK radius lowered along with damage, I don't see how the stuka could be changed from the way it is.
The rocket AoE currently evaporating tanks is just the cherry on top.
The best rework would for it to launch its rocket in a circle similar to the firestorm barrage. Although I don't know how you'd be able to influence the rocket placement because theirs so few. So unless the AoE was buffed a good margin and the OHK radius lowered along with damage, I don't see how the stuka could be changed from the way it is.
The rocket AoE currently evaporating tanks is just the cherry on top.
9 Nov 2020, 19:50 PM
#14
Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1
I remember when they added scatter to the stuka and it made it twice as OP.
The best rework would for it to launch its rocket in a circle similar to the firestorm barrage. Although I don't know how you'd be able to influence the rocket placement because theirs so few. So unless the AoE was buffed a good margin and the OHK radius lowered along with damage, I don't see how the stuka could be changed from the way it is.
The rocket AoE currently evaporating tanks is just the cherry on top.
That is not an accurate description. The weapon has zero penetration so it will do 40 damage on a direct hit with hitboxes but has high AOE penetration and will do lots of damage from AOE to hitboxes.
This is oversight and it should be fixed.
Personally I would rather see incendiary barrage/smoke barrage as standard and HE barrage with tech (either upgrade or buidling)
9 Nov 2020, 19:51 PM
#15
Posts: 940
I remember when they added scatter to the stuka and it made it twice as OP.
Damn, sounds like I missed some fun months! Would have made up for the gardening Combined Arms bug which made me quit for a while.
9 Nov 2020, 19:52 PM
#16
Posts: 17884 | Subs: 8
I like how vipper needs to disagree even with a statement he just repeats after someone else.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
9 Nov 2020, 20:31 PM
#17
Posts: 238
you commenting as a 4v4 axis main only further illucidates the point...
For someone who cares alot about who plays what, you throw way too much shade w/o showing your own playercard <@:^)
On the topic, if it would be possible to make the stuka more useable for blobs like all the other rocket artilleries then I would wholeheartedly welcome it.
But as other have said the stuka is a bitch to change. I think vipper has an interesting idea.
The Ruleset is only a guideline, and are not actually the Rules. This is .org
9 Nov 2020, 20:49 PM
#18
Posts: 1979
For someone who cares alot about who plays what, you throw way too much shade w/o showing your own playercard <@:^)
thats because axis mains have the general trend of "youre bad/trolling/clown if you want to nerf/rework axis or buff/rework allies"...
just compare the soviet OP thread and the ostheer OP thread...
9 Nov 2020, 20:59 PM
#19
Posts: 449
Let's be honest, the Stuka zu Fuss no way near the most important unit to change. We will be even lucky to get a MINOR balance patch. This means MINOR changes. Anything major could fuck up the game for good since there's not gonna be any new activity for a while.
Also, adding more RNG to the Stuka may actually buff it because without proper aiming knowledge it's a bitch to use. Adding RNG would make poorly aimed volleys miss less.
Also, adding more RNG to the Stuka may actually buff it because without proper aiming knowledge it's a bitch to use. Adding RNG would make poorly aimed volleys miss less.
9 Nov 2020, 20:59 PM
#20
Posts: 5279
The advantage of the Stuka is also its disadvantage. While you know exactly where those rockets are going.... So does the enemy and if the enemy is on point they will get away without you dealing any damage. Given the price point and the tier its in and the above I think it's mostly fine tbh
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