The maxim thread
2 Nov 2020, 03:24 AM
#221
Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2
Next time just report and move on.
My controls weren't working
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
3 Nov 2020, 20:34 PM
#222
Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1
If you played the game during maxim spam you would know. Try watching older games.
Unless someone is specifically suggesting bringing back the faster setup time, bringing up the maxim spam is irrelevant. The faster setup time was a crucial feature of maxim spam, because it allows them to a-move very effectively
There's a reason mg42 spam isn't very effective, despite being monstrously better at suppressing than the maxim
3 Nov 2020, 21:36 PM
#223
Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1
Unless someone is specifically suggesting bringing back the faster setup time, bringing up the maxim spam is irrelevant. The faster setup time was a crucial feature of maxim spam, because it allows them to a-move very effectively
There's a reason mg42 spam isn't very effective, despite being monstrously better at suppressing than the maxim
Serrith one has made a very specific suggestion and I have replied to it.
3 Nov 2020, 21:41 PM
#224
Posts: 1979
Some one has made a very specific suggestion and I have replied to it.
hes made a very similar point as ive made...
i did... the maxim at that era had higher suppression than it had now but that wasnt what made it broken.... it was its low cost of 240mp and its 1.5s setup time....
4 Nov 2020, 05:24 AM
#225
Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1
Serrith one has made a very specific suggestion and I have replied to it.
I'm aware. Like I said, the suggestion did not include decreasing the setup time, so you have no reason to be talking about maxim spam
4 Nov 2020, 06:06 AM
#226
Posts: 1289
Its setup alone wasent the main reason for spamming it. It was a very mobile lmg at launch but it wasent spammed at all until it could actually surpress wich in my recolection it could not hope to back then in 2013. Cons and penals also not being good after some changes/nerfs also made the maxim a mainline inf unit.
During it hayday the maxim was 1. Cheap 2. Mobile 3. Fast. 4 had good supression. 5 sov mainline inf was pretty lackluster at this time.
1 through 4 have been nerfed along side a buildtime increase. And 5 has been fixed imo. So how people still have maxim spam fears if 1 of the points (the most important point for a mg) is buffed a bit is just illogical.
Sustained fire to vet0. vet 1 decrease cost of ability. Or drop the price. And lower the buildtime to normal mg build time regardles.
During it hayday the maxim was 1. Cheap 2. Mobile 3. Fast. 4 had good supression. 5 sov mainline inf was pretty lackluster at this time.
1 through 4 have been nerfed along side a buildtime increase. And 5 has been fixed imo. So how people still have maxim spam fears if 1 of the points (the most important point for a mg) is buffed a bit is just illogical.
Sustained fire to vet0. vet 1 decrease cost of ability. Or drop the price. And lower the buildtime to normal mg build time regardles.
4 Nov 2020, 15:33 PM
#227
Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1
Its setup alone wasent the main reason for spamming it.
No one said it was the only reason. It's just that the spam doesn't work without it. You can't use maxims instead of mainline infantry when they setup with the same speed as mg42/34/vickers. Too easy to dodge
4 Nov 2020, 20:10 PM
#228
Posts: 1979
No one said it was the only reason. It's just that the spam doesn't work without it. You can't use maxims instead of mainline infantry when they setup with the same speed as mg42/34/vickers. Too easy to dodge
not only that... it has less arc aswell
5 Nov 2020, 05:31 AM
#229
Posts: 176
Maxim does high damage. Though MGs' main job is to pin down infantry. Lower pin, lower arc, with low setup makes Maxims arent reliable.
For me, its would be great if just drop their arc back to 60, then increase setup speed and higher damage makes Maxim more of offensive MG like back then.
For me, its would be great if just drop their arc back to 60, then increase setup speed and higher damage makes Maxim more of offensive MG like back then.
5 Nov 2020, 05:41 AM
#230
Posts: 1289
But unlike then if a squad get caught on its arc at mid range it has to be hit really hard. Back in those days everything just walked right out of the arc and took little damage to none. Inf also did have armour back then though.
5 Nov 2020, 07:39 AM
#231
Posts: 17884 | Subs: 8
Maxim does high damage.
HMG42 does very comparable dmg(higher up close and far, lower at mid ranges, no contest once incendiary rounds are active).
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
5 Nov 2020, 15:10 PM
#232
Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2
MGs which fail to suppress quickly end up been doing more damage.
I think the difference in DPS ends up been minimal with only the MG34 on the lower end and the Dhska on the higher end.
I think the difference in DPS ends up been minimal with only the MG34 on the lower end and the Dhska on the higher end.
My controls weren't working
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
5 Nov 2020, 16:00 PM
#233
Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1
MGs which fail to suppress quickly end up been doing more damage.
I think the difference in DPS ends up been minimal with only the MG34 on the lower end and the Dhska on the higher end.
That sound about right but the Dshk has ridiculously high close DPS once vetted, generally speaking there are differences in DPS with veterancy (Dhsk has around 1.5 to 1.2 the DPS of HMG42).
(edited to be more accurate)
5 Nov 2020, 16:10 PM
#234
Posts: 1515
Maxim, if anything, should probably retain low suppression and lack of light vehicle counter (like .50 cal and Axis mgs), but have a setup time of 2 seconds (unlike 3 that is currently). Would be closer the the original maxim but wouldn't be OP vs infantry (I think)
How much wood could a woodchuck chuck, if a woodchuck could chuck wood?
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https://coh2stats.com/players/76561198031032150
5 Nov 2020, 18:11 PM
#235
Posts: 1979
MGs which fail to suppress quickly end up been doing more damage.
I think the difference in DPS ends up been minimal with only the MG34 on the lower end and the Dhska on the higher end.
thats a terrible argument though... DPS isnt the primary job of MGs its suppression
5 Nov 2020, 20:04 PM
#236
Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2
thats a terrible argument though... DPS isnt the primary job of MGs its suppression
Read again, i'm not describing an argument. Just stating a fact.
When a unit takes longer to suppress, the damage is not cut down in half. That doesn't mean it's good for an MG to be doing dmg as opposed to be suppressing.
Which is why i said most MGs have similar DPS though the performance in how much dmg they do in avg varies.
That sound about right but the Dshk has ridiculously high close DPS once vetted, generally speaking there are differences in DPS with veterancy (Dhsk has around double the DPS of Hmg42).
That's an exaggeration. Unfortunately serealia does a poor job at taking into account vet weapon profiles or it's missing several non main weapon such as grenades. Unless you were comparing vet 0 MG42 vs vet 3 Dhska the DPS discrepancy is nowhere near close.
If the guide is correct, they have equal vet values outside of vet 1. The difference between DHska and MG42 is between 25% at the far ranges and then floating between around 35% to 45%
My controls weren't working
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
5 Nov 2020, 20:09 PM
#237
Posts: 1979
Read again, i'm not describing an argument. Just stating a fact.
When a unit takes longer to suppress, the damage is not cut down in half. That doesn't mean it's good for an MG to be doing dmg as opposed to be suppressing.
Which is why i said most MGs have similar DPS though the performance in how much dmg they do in avg varies.
yes but if MG1 has the same DPS as MG2 but (MG1) has less suppression the fact that (MG2) doing "less damage" is an advantage as opposed to a disadvantage in this case...
5 Nov 2020, 20:21 PM
#238
Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2
yes but if MG1 has the same DPS as MG2 but has less suppression the fact that its doing "less damage" is a disadvantage as opposed to an advantage in this case...
You don't get it. If 2 units have equal DPS, the unit doing less suppression will do more dmg.
MG "A" does 1 DPS
MG "B" does 1 DPS.
MG "A" suppresses in 1s
MG "B" suppresses in 4s
Both shoot for 4s.
MG A does 2.5 dmg over 4s. (1 + 0.5x3)
MG B does 4.0 dmg over 4s.
"A" is clearly better, even though it's doing less dmg with the same DPS.
My controls weren't working
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
5 Nov 2020, 20:23 PM
#239
Posts: 1979
You don't get it. If 2 units have equal DPS, the unit doing less suppression will do more dmg.
MG "A" does 1 DPS
MG "B" does 1 DPS.
MG "A" suppresses in 1s
MG "B" suppresses in 4s
Both shoot for 4s.
MG A does 2.5 dmg over 4s. (1 + 0.5x3)
MG B does 4.0 dmg over 4s.
"A" is clearly better, even though it's doing less dmg with the same DPS.
exactly... MG1 has the same DPS as MG2 but MG1 has less suppression... the fact that MG1 is doing more damage is not an advantage but a disadvantage in this case....
5 Nov 2020, 20:34 PM
#240
Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2
exactly... MG1 has the same DPS as MG2 but MG1 has less suppression... the fact that MG1 is doing more damage is not an advantage but a disadvantage in this case....
I suggest you edit your comment because your last 2 post contradict themselves. Which is why i gave an ELI5
Again, i haven't made an argument as you claim before. It's simple describing what happens in game due to units suppressing faster than others. This is the same reason people perception on the Vickers as a high dmg MG.
My controls weren't working
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
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