Login

russian armor

Pershing blows - USF Heavy Cavalry

PAGES (10)down
29 Oct 2020, 20:36 PM
#121
avatar of T.R. Stormjäger

Posts: 3588 | Subs: 3

jump backJump back to quoted post29 Oct 2020, 20:33 PMPip
.You're doing this thing where you're implying that's A: All REs are good for, and B: Somehow this investment the USF are making is absurd compared to the 200mp (And potentially 30muni) investment that Ostheer arguably always must make?


USF is designed around crew repairs. Requiring a 2nd RE being built means you spend mp building it that could go on another unit, just so the Pershing can function normally. 2 REs is not the same as 2 Pios.
29 Oct 2020, 20:40 PM
#122
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1

RE do not cost 250 manpower

Vehicles crew can repair other vehicles including the Pershing.
Pip
29 Oct 2020, 20:43 PM
#123
avatar of Pip

Posts: 1594



USF is designed around crew repairs. Requiring a 2nd RE being built means you spend mp building it that could go on another unit, just so the Pershing can function normally. 2 REs is not the same as 2 Pios.


How is it not the same as two pios? USF vehicle crews/repairs is a faction bonus, you usually benefit by not needing to build an extra RE, and still don't with the Pershing, if you are happy to repair with just one RE, or make use of another vehicle crew. You've got the option to get a second RE if you're unhappy with those two scenarios. You're not suddenly crippled because you have that option.

What's the repair speed of a vet3 RE when compared to a single Vet3 Pioneer, with and without Minesweeper?

EDIT: Actually, wait, yeah. RE's don't cost 250mp. They cost 200.
29 Oct 2020, 20:51 PM
#124
avatar of T.R. Stormjäger

Posts: 3588 | Subs: 3

jump backJump back to quoted post29 Oct 2020, 20:43 PMPip
How is it not the same as two pios? USF vehicle crews/repairs is a faction bonus


It’s not a bonus, it’s a tradeoff for not having high armoured units and thus being unable to bounce shots.

Understand the factions before you comment on their balance.
Pip
29 Oct 2020, 21:09 PM
#125
avatar of Pip

Posts: 1594



It’s not a bonus, it’s a tradeoff for not having high armoured units and thus being unable to bounce shots.

Understand the factions before you comment on their balance.


Like the Soviets (nondoctrinally), you mean? The USF are not "unable to bounce shots", unless we're talking about against Panthers or other dedicated AT, in which case P4s are similarly vulnerable to USF Jacksons. USF have middling armour values across the board.

Are you going to tell me the USF's vehicle moving accuracy and access to nondoctrinal launched smoke isnt a bonus, either?

Their vehicle crews are a bonus, regardless of your weird attempt to deny it, especially since they allow USF vehicles to rapidly remove engine criticals.

Don't insult me.
29 Oct 2020, 21:13 PM
#126
avatar of T.R. Stormjäger

Posts: 3588 | Subs: 3

jump backJump back to quoted post29 Oct 2020, 21:09 PMPip
Like the Soviets (nondoctrinally)


Soviets go double CEs (170mp extra vs 200mp) to spam mines just to survive. Also flamer is essential to their early game. Not sure why the comparison to USF, REs can’t get a flamer and usually just get 2 zooks and a sweeper, then run around helping repair or shooting tanks.

Crews, smoke and moving accuracy are not bonuses. Bonus implies it’s an extra. They’re not extras. Without them it would be laughable to compare the USF and Ostheer vehicle rosters.
Pip
29 Oct 2020, 21:23 PM
#127
avatar of Pip

Posts: 1594



Soviets go double CEs (170mp extra vs 200mp) to spam mines just to survive. Also flamer is essential to their early game. Not sure why the comparison to USF, REs can’t get a flamer and usually just get 2 zooks and a sweeper, then run around helping repair or shooting tanks.

Crews, smoke and moving accuracy are not bonuses. Bonus implies it’s an extra. They’re not extras. Without them it would be laughable to compare the USF and Ostheer vehicle rosters.


So what is an "Extra" then? Because clearly we can't consider Ostheer/OKW's higher armour to be "Extras", given that without it you'd be paying a premium for practically the same tank as the US/soviets/UKF.

Look man, you're not arguing in good faith here.
29 Oct 2020, 21:32 PM
#128
avatar of T.R. Stormjäger

Posts: 3588 | Subs: 3

Look man, you're not arguing in good faith here.


Doubt that

It’s simple, you can either get 2 mediums and an infantry squad, or you can get a Pershing and a RE that’s stuck repairing it. There are 2 ways to balance this, either the Pershing is amazing enough to perform as well as 2 mediums and an infantry squad, or the need for the 2nd RE is removed via the addition of crew repair and thus the needle moves to the right in this scale and the Pershing is in a much better place in the meta.
29 Oct 2020, 21:52 PM
#129
avatar of WunderKatze

Posts: 25

My complaint and ask for a repair ability comes from the observation that my Pershing spends a lot of time repairing compared to my tigers.

The combination of low armor and low RE repair rate causes the Pershing to spend lots of idle time and overall I the Pershing has a lot less presence on the map than I would like it to have...
29 Oct 2020, 22:09 PM
#130
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1

My complaint and ask for a repair ability comes from the observation that my Pershing spends a lot of time repairing compared to my tigers.

The combination of low armor and low RE repair rate causes the Pershing to spend lots of idle time and overall I the Pershing has a lot less presence on the map than I would like it to have...


A Panther firing on Perhsing at range 50 has 81% chance to penetrate and 84% chance to score a hit.

The chance to do damage is 68% to do damage.

A M36 firing at range 50 on Tiger has 75% chance to penetrate and 99% chance to score a hit .


The chance to do damage is 74% to do damage.

Chances get even better for M36 if it uses AP round or if it vets...
29 Oct 2020, 22:16 PM
#131
avatar of Selvy289

Posts: 366

jump backJump back to quoted post29 Oct 2020, 22:09 PMVipper


A Panther firing on Perhsing at range 50 has 81% chance to penetrate and 84% chance to score a hit.

The chance to do damage is 68% to do damage.

A M36 firing at range 50 on Tiger has 75% chance to penetrate and 99% chance to score a hit .


The chance to do damage is 74% to do damage.

Chances get even better for M36 if it uses AP round or if it vets...


You probably already know this but the ap round is a skill shot, you more than likely miss the panther due to its speed.

Also, you get a cue if the player is firing a skill shot because the turret won't track and lock in place (goes through objects, best used when not in sight).

In turns of vet, the panther would have a huge mobility advantage thanks to blitz (and slight armor) over the pershing while the pershing would have accuracy.
29 Oct 2020, 22:51 PM
#132
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1



You probably already know this but the ap round is a skill shot, you more than likely miss the panther due to its speed.

Also, you get a cue if the player is firing a skill shot because the turret won't track and lock in place (goes through objects, best used when not in sight).

In turns of vet, the panther would have a huge mobility advantage thanks to blitz (and slight armor) over the pershing while the pershing would have accuracy.

I am talking about the M36 "T30E16 HVAP-T Armor Piercing Rounds" not the Pershing's "Fire M93 HVAP Armor Piercing Round".
30 Oct 2020, 00:51 AM
#133
avatar of Selvy289

Posts: 366

jump backJump back to quoted post29 Oct 2020, 22:51 PMVipper

I am talking about the M36 "T30E16 HVAP-T Armor Piercing Rounds" not the Pershing's "Fire M93 HVAP Armor Piercing Round".


Wow, my failed reading comprehension.

Anyway, looking at the pershings ability has to offer it is criminaly overpriced.
30 Oct 2020, 03:06 AM
#134
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 5279

the USF privilege of actually complaining about needing an engineer to heal the tank is unbelievable... an engineer that can get AT or BARs to support no less. most factions do that actually, and less than half the others can slap guns onto their engineers to make them more than repair bots. and as DREADFUL as it is to take 30 whole seconds to heal 320 damage, that's actually kind of the point of dealing damage...
30 Oct 2020, 05:41 AM
#135
avatar of WunderKatze

Posts: 25

the USF privilege of actually complaining about needing an engineer to heal the tank is unbelievable... an engineer that can get AT or BARs to support no less. most factions do that actually, and less than half the others can slap guns onto their engineers to make them more than repair bots. and as DREADFUL as it is to take 30 whole seconds to heal 320 damage, that's actually kind of the point of dealing damage...


This is about buffing an underperforming unit not about how USF should never require engineers. The idea is that the negative sides of the unit are compounded by the requirement to build engineers that have a sub standard repair rate.

It's one buff idea and while I think it would help and fit with the faction identity its not needed.
30 Oct 2020, 07:49 AM
#136
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1



Wow, my failed reading comprehension.

No problem happens


Anyway, looking at the pershings ability has to offer it is criminaly overpriced.

It is probably a bit pricey (in line 17p's) but:
400/350/300 penetration
240 damage
has world piercing
I am not sure but it probably has extended range also.
30 Oct 2020, 08:07 AM
#137
avatar of Selvy289

Posts: 366

jump backJump back to quoted post30 Oct 2020, 07:49 AMVipper

No problem happens


It is probably a bit pricey (in line 17p's) but:
400/350/300 penetration
240 damage
has world piercing
I am not sure but it probably has extended range also.


It has 70 range. For a single skill shot and (a bit far fetch) that can bounce off the kt (super slim chance vet 2 brummbar) its quite alot for 90 muni. I know its different but it makes me think of the ISUs concrete piercing round (which is underrated) that is 70 muni that is great against everything that no one uses.

Its just a tad too expensive. Matching the ISU concrete round price (70 muni) and upping it pen would do because most armor will be to mobile with the only exception of crippled or heavy tanks.
30 Oct 2020, 08:35 AM
#138
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1



It has 70 range. For a single skill shot and (a bit far fetch) that can bounce off the kt (super slim chance vet 2 brummbar) its quite alot for 90 muni. I know its different but it makes me think of the ISUs concrete piercing round (which is underrated) that is 70 muni that is great against everything that no one uses.

Its just a tad too expensive. Matching the ISU concrete round price (70 muni) and upping it pen would do because most armor will be to mobile with the only exception of crippled or heavy tanks.

Lowering the mu price to 70 (possibly even 60)(for the 17p also) sounds reasonable.

I See little reason for increasing penetration since it is inline with the one ISU has.
PAGES (10)down
1 user is browsing this thread: 1 guest

Ladders Top 10

  • #
    Steam Alias
    W
    L
    %
    Streak
Data provided by Relic Relic Entertainment

Replay highlight

VS
  • U.S. Forces flag cblanco ★
  • The British Forces flag 보드카 중대
  • Oberkommando West flag VonManteuffel
  • Ostheer flag Heartless Jäger
uploaded by XXxxHeartlessxxXX

Board Info

500 users are online: 500 guests
17 posts in the last 24h
44 posts in the last week
100 posts in the last month
Registered members: 44647
Welcome our newest member, Vassarh9
Most online: 2043 users on 29 Oct 2023, 01:04 AM