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russian armor

Is the WC 51 overperforming ?

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4 Aug 2020, 11:51 AM
#1
avatar of mr.matrix300

Posts: 518

I can't help but feel, that this unit, which costs 200 MP ( less than a Kubel and on top of that no fuel ) is overperforming. I mean sure ... you need to pay 45 ammo to upgrade it with an MG, but you can transport troops with it (even when upgraded) , you can mark vehicles with it, you can call arty with it in and it can even repair itself ( by that I mean the crew can repair it ) and it can capture points. Just compare this to the other equivalents of the WC 51.

Kubel: non doctrinal, Costs a bit more MP, can also cap points, can not transport any troops and overall sucks against infantry, let alone light vehicles. Gets slaughtered by WC 51

UC: non doctrinal, can repair itself ( for ammo ), Can transport troops when without upgrade, is decent against infantry, more MP and Ammo needed, can not cap points, more time passes till it can be upgraded

OKW 221: doctrinal, can not cap points, Needs fuel, can repair itself ( for ammo ), okish against infantry, has some useful abilities ( of which one you will probably never use as it need vet 5 for it ) , can obv. not transport infantry, no ammo needed. Will get beaten by WC 51


In my opinion the WC 51s MG should deal far less damage. Especailly against light vehicles like the OKWs 221 or the 251. Even without a great MG it still has much to offer.

One thing that is also worth mentioning imo is that the UC got nerfed and its upgrades stuck behind T1 because it was too good. So why doesn't the same apply to the WC 51? Why isn't it considered too good. After all it gets its Upgrade earlier than the UC ( and even earlier than the old UC) and even has more and better abilities than the UC ( flamethrower left aside )

4 Aug 2020, 11:53 AM
#2
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17583 | Subs: 8

It'll likely will lose arty if we get another patch.
But that's a big "if" considering the fact that there is a grand total of zero people on coh2 with technical knowledge needed to build any kind of patch from relic side now.
4 Aug 2020, 12:23 PM
#3
avatar of JohnSmith

Posts: 1273

I have not seen a single WC51 ever in 2on2 as OST player. Do you have any replays or casts?
4 Aug 2020, 12:46 PM
#4
avatar of JulianSnow

Posts: 321

Always felt like the WC51 doesn't need the arty ability. Maybe replace it with something like a suppresive fire ability (copy of the UC ability) or some other minor buffs.

The unit, no doubt, is very good even without vet. Atleast when I play USF I always use Mech
4 Aug 2020, 12:51 PM
#5
avatar of Ægion
Senior Modmaker Badge

Posts: 748 | Subs: 2

For me, the arty and mark target ability is a way to cram more abilities into the doctrine to go past the 5 doctrine slots. This is why I prefer an available upgrade to make it a supply truck like the opel blitz.
4 Aug 2020, 13:15 PM
#6
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13148 | Subs: 1

it is underperforming plain and simple.

(things OP missed:
range advantage
passenger can compared to UC where passenger can not shoot
Comes in the same commander slot as M3 )
4 Aug 2020, 13:15 PM
#7
avatar of borobadger

Posts: 184

Take away its ability to turn into a formula 1 car for free, its ability to outrange infantry, its ability to carry squads, its ability to mark target and its ability to call in artillery and it will STILL be 10x better than the kubel, a unit that is actually more expensive.

Yes it is overpeforming.
4 Aug 2020, 13:29 PM
#8
avatar of JZuna

Posts: 134

Another thing to add at full HP it can survive double faust.

The WC1 just needs a few tweaks on its most broken features like reduce HP so it dies to double faust, reduce the range of the MG so infantry can fire back, possibly nerf its vet1 ability so it doesn't just sprint out of danger with no hope of catching up and maybe remove mark target or arty and give it to M3 halftrack.
4 Aug 2020, 13:30 PM
#9
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17583 | Subs: 8

jump backJump back to quoted post4 Aug 2020, 13:29 PMJZuna
Another thing to add at full HP it can survive double faust.


All ultra lights can except M3 and if M3 was to get Mirageflas changes, so would it.
4 Aug 2020, 14:57 PM
#10
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post4 Aug 2020, 13:15 PMVipper
it is underperforming plain and simple.

(things OP missed:
range advantage
passenger can compared to UC where passenger can not shoot
Comes in the same commander slot as M3 )


Over.

The unit does so many things other similar units would want or already have.
4 Aug 2020, 15:05 PM
#11
avatar of Hannibal
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 2837 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post4 Aug 2020, 13:15 PMVipper
it is underperforming plain and simple.

(things OP missed:
range advantage
passenger can compared to UC where passenger can not shoot
Comes in the same commander slot as M3 )


While I agree, I think the last one is a commander issue and not one of the unit itself.
4 Aug 2020, 15:26 PM
#12
avatar of Goldenpunch

Posts: 124

WC 51 is fine with its features. Never forget if you guys double faust it its gone. And every axis faction have got faust.
4 Aug 2020, 15:27 PM
#13
avatar of Osinyagov
Senior Modmaker Badge

Posts: 1377

The only "not ok" about WC51 is capability to shot down planes with M2HB. AFAIK it's the only fuel-free AA in the game.
4 Aug 2020, 15:28 PM
#14
avatar of Goldenpunch

Posts: 124

The only "not ok" about WC51 is capability to shot down planes with M2HB. AFAIK it's the only fuel-free AA in the game.


its not one shot planes with M2HB. Just damage. Remember you can double faust it and its dead.
4 Aug 2020, 15:48 PM
#15
avatar of achpawel

Posts: 1351

Horribly OP unit. The simplest balance method would be to remove the crew.
4 Aug 2020, 16:06 PM
#16
avatar of Acidfreak

Posts: 281

Please consider it is a doctrinal unit. Should've something more than a stock unit.
4 Aug 2020, 16:39 PM
#17
avatar of SupremeStefan

Posts: 1201

1. strong only in 1v1
2. no one cares about 1v1
4 Aug 2020, 18:03 PM
#18
avatar of mrgame2

Posts: 1738

It is a nonsense unit even for 2v2.
WC51 >>> 222.


5 Aug 2020, 04:47 AM
#19
avatar of mr.matrix300

Posts: 518


its not one shot planes with M2HB. Just damage.


A single WC 51 can shoot down a 60 ammo recon plane in about 30 seconds (without the player doing anything ). The 35 Ammo recon plane can even be shot down instantly by double WC 51 ( and can be shot down by a single WC 51 if used correctly / lucky and with Vet. )



Remember you can double faust it and its dead


Remember the WC 51 has wheels and can move.

Also: Spending 50 Ammo and some Manpower ( you will lose some models when charging it ) to kill a 200 MP and 45 Ammo unit isn't exactly what I would consider a great deal
5 Aug 2020, 05:25 AM
#20
avatar of Sumi

Posts: 132

I guess the commander does not have a good late game and thats why it tries to balance it out by a very good 0cp unit. 76mm fails to do anything, I mean who would make a 76mm to counter T4 units of axis, it is bad in AI as compared to M4 and bad in AT as compared to Jackson. Has the same armor and hp as m4 so 4 shots kill it and not much bounces frontally when it goes against p4. I don't know why is it even present for USF, very unused commander if not for early meme games.

If you do nerf WC 51 then the commander would be totally useless.
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