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russian armor

Cali Armor nerf

25 Jun 2020, 12:50 PM
#21
avatar of Widerstreit

Posts: 1392

Simply reduce its range, so it has to be played with more risc. With its hp and armor advantage it should be played like that.

Like Panzerwerfer can only clean team-weapons if it goes to the magic < 60 range mark, but is a one-shot. :P

That would be 50 range for Cali, way too less. But 70-100 seem to be fair as max. range.


Making it more like an assault howitzer e.g. Sturmtiger.
25 Jun 2020, 13:03 PM
#22
avatar of OrangePest

Posts: 568 | Subs: 1

Imo the calliople should be 2 shot not 3 shot, too much hp for basically no risk when you go hard on the shotgun blasting, that and you're almost guaranteed wipes when you fire it off. For the cost vs other rocket arty (katty needs tech, pwerfer requires luxury tech, landmattres slow and decreweable, stuka delays your mediums significantly) the calliople has none of the drawback of other rocket arty but with all the benefits and strengths that they simply cannot compete with.
25 Jun 2020, 13:16 PM
#23
avatar of JulianSnow

Posts: 321

Axis fanboy here;

I think the tank should have the exact same armor value as the basic Sherman has. I'm even convinced the maingun should be switched on so the tank would work like a stug (no turret rotation). At that point: maybe increase the cost a bit (locked behind major and increase to 480/145).
25 Jun 2020, 13:17 PM
#24
avatar of Widerstreit

Posts: 1392

Axis fanboy here;

I think the tank should have the exact same armor value as the basic Sherman has. I'm even convinced the maingun should be switched on so the tank would work like a stug (no turret rotation). At that point: maybe increase the cost a bit (locked behind major and increase to 480/145).


Don't see a problem, if its range gets nerfed hard. Or, simply give a limit of 1-2.
25 Jun 2020, 13:37 PM
#25
avatar of Grim

Posts: 1093

Simply reduce its range, so it has to be played with more risc. With its hp and armor advantage it should be played like that.

Like Panzerwerfer can only clean team-weapons if it goes to the magic < 60 range mark, but is a one-shot. :P

That would be 50 range for Cali, way too less. But 70-100 seem to be fair as max. range.


Making it more like an assault howitzer e.g. Sturmtiger.


This idea gets a solid no from me, dawg.

Unless you plan to add bonus damage vs vehicles, what with it being more akin to the sturmtiger:)

25 Jun 2020, 13:47 PM
#26
avatar of Widerstreit

Posts: 1392

jump backJump back to quoted post25 Jun 2020, 13:37 PMGrim


This idea gets a solid no from me, dawg.

Unless you plan to add bonus damage vs vehicles, what with it being more akin to the sturmtiger:)



It has to be tested.


Beside, most op units are only op for 3vs3 and larger, there has to be a path to make the unit more fluent.

Edit: Cali could also become a normal Sherman again, with the bonus of rockets. It chould be added a new crit only effects the rockets etc.

Nothing impossible.
26 Jun 2020, 01:47 AM
#27
avatar of SuperHansFan

Posts: 833

Does anybody else feel like the calli should be able to bounce p4 shots? It is already hard to kill as it is (3 shot killl). Please give it the jackson treatment and nerf its armor to 110.

Also i dont care about realism becouse

A im pretty sure it wasnt a good thing having a bunch of explosives on top of your tank while being shot at. And

B you could not reload those rockets while being inside the tank.

So just reduce the armor to 110 to stop stupid rng moments.



It's not "stupid RNG momemts", it's a tank with rockets on top

If you ask me it should have full Sherman survivability, but the rockets should be disabled in the first 100 damage and require repair

This was how the unit worked in coh1
26 Jun 2020, 02:02 AM
#28
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 5279

I always figured the calliope shoulda been a munitions upgrade for a regular Sherman with a munitions cost per barrage (think firefly esq) . That eliminates the no teching problem as well as making more choice within the commanders which have great munitions abilities that are otherwise abusable.
27 Jun 2020, 22:50 PM
#29
avatar of Pervitin Addict

Posts: 51

Does anybody else feel like the calli should be able to bounce p4 shots? It is already hard to kill as it is (3 shot killl). Please give it the jackson treatment and nerf its armor to 110.

Also i dont care about realism becouse

A im pretty sure it wasnt a good thing having a bunch of explosives on top of your tank while being shot at. And

B you could not reload those rockets while being inside the tank.

So just reduce the armor to 110 to stop stupid rng moments.



Good Suggestion +1
28 Jun 2020, 00:02 AM
#30
avatar of distrofio

Posts: 2358

jump backJump back to quoted post25 Jun 2020, 09:04 AMKatitof
Its still a tank you know.
Not a lightly armored carriage for a gun.

Its a regular tank with rocket attachment.
Why shouldn't it have tank armor?

If it's a regular tank with a rocket attachment, why can't it shoot its main gun?

Why is realism a fact instead of balance in this particular case? Allied units are not bound to balance or am I missing some important detail?

I think OP point is valid although a needless patch

Add: I would like to see its main gun enabled, like a Sherman and reduce its armor. Simple as that. Adjust cost in proportion to the new unit power level and cal it a day
28 Jun 2020, 00:29 AM
#31
avatar of T.R. Stormjäger

Posts: 3588 | Subs: 3

+1 to Fire and Terror and to Orangetilt
28 Jun 2020, 02:42 AM
#32
avatar of didimegadudu

Posts: 66

in that case, make the Calliope able to defend itself from tanks by putting an armor piercing HVAC round in the turret that can stun vehicles for 10 seconds.
28 Jun 2020, 06:42 AM
#33
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2


If it's a regular tank with a rocket attachment, why can't it shoot its main gun?

Why is realism a fact instead of balance in this particular case? Allied units are not bound to balance or am I missing some important detail?

I think OP point is valid although a needless patch

Add: I would like to see its main gun enabled, like a Sherman and reduce its armor. Simple as that. Adjust cost in proportion to the new unit power level and cal it a day


IIRC, depending on the version of the CalliOP, the tank couldn't shoot before dropping the rocket rak. And the versions that could, had limited aiming.

Initially in vcoh1 we had CalliOP with main gun and the concept was deemed OP. I know, old game and yada yada but as a concept, i think it's the reason we never had it in CoH2 to start wiht.


Balance wise, i think both sides have a point. The unit is already more expensive, had it's HP nerfed and vehicle crew removed.
On the other side, nerfing it's armor won't kill the unit in the slightest. I would propose something slightly different. Increase it's size. Yeah mediums are now smaller and there's a difference but personally i would keep all shermans with the same armor value (those who don't specifically are tougher for a reason).


At the end of the day, this is low in the list of priorities (faction and unit are not in the spotlight) that there's really 0 incentivize to change in for such little gain and just "alienating" people on one side.
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